SQL Clone
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Reading Through the Logs


Reading Through the Logs

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 602522 Visits: 21101
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Reading Through the Logs

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
call.copse
call.copse
SSChampion
SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)SSChampion (14K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 14123 Visits: 2412
That is indeed an awesome tweet, thanks, hadn't seen it!

I'm going to say that it looks like a right pickle. By which I mean that the subsequent account functioning and cross bleeding from account to account, and strange activity like the future payments, means it's impossible to just go back to where they started for many accounts. It's hard to see that the bank can ever fully recover - but I guess they can restore where needed and take the losses on the chin, against the future £100 million savings per annum - if things do get unravelled. Presumably many accounts have continued to operate OK.
chrisn-585491
chrisn-585491
SSChampion
SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 13727 Visits: 2926
I read through a lot of various transaction logs from various financial and other systems. It's really easy to make assumptions,mistakes and underestimate the complexity of business and real world environments.

I think it was the hubris of the "modern" management of the bank to think they could replace a complex system that had grown organically over decades and had probably lost most of it's institutional memory in the form of retirements. It's the same mentality that brings us the insecure IoT and folks thinking that JavaScript programs with hundreds of externally managed dependencies can be "secure".

We know how to build good, secure and real time software. We have quality modern languages and best practices that the industry ignores. Instead, we would rather have fast, insecure hardware and the latest fashionable framework. We are still tool using primates.
jay-h
jay-h
SSCoach
SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 15666 Visits: 2787
chrisn-585491 - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 6:59 AM
...
We know how to build good, secure and real time software. We have quality modern languages and best practices that the industry ignores. Instead, we would rather have fast, insecure hardware and the latest fashionable framework. We are still tool using primates.

Along the line of your comment, I place part of the problem back long before this project, when new features and functionality was apparently jury-rigged into the system with little thought to future issues. Every system should be maintained with the knowledge that it will one day need to be replaced.


...

-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 602522 Visits: 21101
There is an amazing amount of slop in today's business world. I have no doubt the bank will continue, albeit with worse profits this year. Or maybe no profit, but they won't let it fail. I wouldn't be surprised if they renamed it in a few months.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)SSC Guru (602K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 602522 Visits: 21101
jay-h - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:17 AM
chrisn-585491 - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 6:59 AM
...
We know how to build good, secure and real time software. We have quality modern languages and best practices that the industry ignores. Instead, we would rather have fast, insecure hardware and the latest fashionable framework. We are still tool using primates.

Along the line of your comment, I place part of the problem back long before this project, when new features and functionality was apparently jury-rigged into the system with little thought to future issues. Every system should be maintained with the knowledge that it will one day need to be replaced.


I'd agree we know, as an industry how to build good, secure, real time software. As many individuals, we don't. In fact, knowledge is very unevenly distributed. We don't have a formal set of things to learn like some other disciplines, but even they make mistakes. Witness the bridge in Florida, recalls by Toyota, and more. The best still make mistakes in complex endeavors.

That being said , Toyota leans a lot, as do others, and overall quality improves over time. Today our failures are more often because we place higher priorities on items outside of quality or durability.

Should every system be maintained? I disagree. We may change how we do things and abandon some software, even software that seems really critical. The world changes. Banks have rules to operation and those ought to be documented, and a new system should be able to replace it. I'm not sure this one didn't. What I suspect is they skimped on testing, using happy paths, or limited load to prepare. They "thought" they knew banking software, but apparently didn't know it well enough for a UK system.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
jay-h
jay-h
SSCoach
SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)SSCoach (15K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 15666 Visits: 2787
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:28 AM
There is an amazing amount of slop in today's business world. I have no doubt the bank will continue, albeit with worse profits this year. Or maybe no profit, but they won't let it fail. I wouldn't be surprised if they renamed it in a few months.


https://www.theonion.com/university-of-nevada-renames-vito-corleone-school-of-bu-1819579865

...

-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
chrisn-585491
chrisn-585491
SSChampion
SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)SSChampion (13K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 13727 Visits: 2926
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:37 AM
jay-h - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:17 AM
chrisn-585491 - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 6:59 AM
...
We know how to build good, secure and real time software. We have quality modern languages and best practices that the industry ignores. Instead, we would rather have fast, insecure hardware and the latest fashionable framework. We are still tool using primates.

Along the line of your comment, I place part of the problem back long before this project, when new features and functionality was apparently jury-rigged into the system with little thought to future issues. Every system should be maintained with the knowledge that it will one day need to be replaced.


I'd agree we know, as an industry how to build good, secure, real time software. As many individuals, we don't. In fact, knowledge is very unevenly distributed. We don't have a formal set of things to learn like some other disciplines, but even they make mistakes. Witness the bridge in Florida, recalls by Toyota, and more. The best still make mistakes in complex endeavors.

That being said , Toyota leans a lot, as do others, and overall quality improves over time. Today our failures are more often because we place higher priorities on items outside of quality or durability.

Should every system be maintained? I disagree. We may change how we do things and abandon some software, even software that seems really critical. The world changes. Banks have rules to operation and those ought to be documented, and a new system should be able to replace it. I'm not sure this one didn't. What I suspect is they skimped on testing, using happy paths, or limited load to prepare. They "thought" they knew banking software, but apparently didn't know it well enough for a UK system.

I doubt the best or even the average were involved with the bridge in Florida. There's probably enough criminal neglect in the engineering, planning and construction of that boondoggle to hang a score of people. And Toyota got reamed in court about their code practices and management. And these are engineering fields with supposedly higher standards.

Eric M Russell
Eric M Russell
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)SSC Guru (108K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 108479 Visits: 14551
It seems that IT within banking, mortgage, healthcare, education, and government is far from being a model of excellence. I feel that the big name IT contracting, ISV, and implementation firms that cater to these industries are actually NOT among the best at what they do, and there are better options, like Microsoft for example.


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum








































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search