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Decouple the Tools


Decouple the Tools

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Steve Jones
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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Decouple the Tools

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t.franz
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I'd guess that there are a lot of small and big shops out there, which uses bcp and sqlcmd regulary (e.g. bcp for simple import / export tasks where SSIS is just to big and clumsy and sqlcmd.exe for the default jobs created by Ola's maintenance solution) as server tools. Having them to be installed separate would slightly increase the security (when they are NOT installed) but could cause trouble too (when forgotten to install) and decrease security (when you miss a critical security hotfix for them, while you always install the latest CUs for the SQL Server main installation).

Of course it would be nice to have "regular" import/export routines, which does not need to use external tools or legacy stuff as the Ole Automations.
Dave Poole
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I think bcp could do with enhancements. As a high speed import/export tool it has served me well. The ability to handle parquet/Orc files would be fantastic. Far more cross platform data exchange takes place these days as the love affair with data lakes continues

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Cary Hower-563110
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From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.
Steve Jones
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Cary Hower-563110 - Monday, March 5, 2018 5:34 AM
From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.


They should have offline, easier to install mechanisms, I agree.

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Doug Dodge
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Monday, March 5, 2018 6:45 AM
Cary Hower-563110 - Monday, March 5, 2018 5:34 AM
From a strictly product point of view I can understand and even agree with the decoupling. However, for those of us who have to maintain SQL Server instances that cannot connect to the Internet, this is becoming a major pain. I would like Microsoft to be more aware of those of us that don't have access to the Internet and consider an alternate delivery mechanism.


They should have offline, easier to install mechanisms, I agree.

Curious about what sort of approach folks are thinking of here. Cory mentioned being 'offline' and my suspicion, being the too-literal thinker I tend to be Smile, is that this would not mean DVDs but rather a controlled download from a secure location. I was thinking that some sort of 'widget' could monitor versions and provide suggestions or something similar.

In other words, what practical approaches would work?

Rod
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FWIW, I haven't been able to run Books Online in quite a while. Guess I'm one of those whose still having problems getting that to work.

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David.Poole - Monday, March 5, 2018 1:31 AM
I think bcp could do with enhancements. As a high speed import/export tool it has served me well. The ability to handle parquet/Orc files would be fantastic. Far more cross platform data exchange takes place these days as the love affair with data lakes continues

The major reason bcp is high-speed is because it is focused on a specific pipeline between a specific set of potential input/output formats.
SSIS is what you want for more formats or a customized pipeline. In my experience, a well-designed SSIS package can be as efficient as bcp in terms of raw performance, while providing more complete error and performance logging.
Having said that, what I'd really like is a BCP native-format file source/destination for SSIS.

Chris Harshman
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Sometimes they've decoupled too much. For example, I recently had to rename an Analysis Services instance for SQL Server 2016. It's actually a fairly easy thing to do, but unfortunately the tool to do that is bundled with Management Studio, which wasn't installed on the server, so I had to install that client side program first to get the server side tool Hehe
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/analysis-services/instances/rename-an-analysis-services-instance
Steve Jones
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Chris Harshman - Monday, March 5, 2018 10:51 AM
Sometimes they've decoupled too much. For example, I recently had to rename an Analysis Services instance for SQL Server 2016. It's actually a fairly easy thing to do, but unfortunately the tool to do that is bundled with Management Studio, which wasn't installed on the server, so I had to install that client side program first to get the server side tool Hehe
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/analysis-services/instances/rename-an-analysis-services-instance


Why install the client tool on the server? Can no clients connect to the server? Or does this change only local instances? Either way, decoupling still makes sense. Install the client tool if you need it. I'd prefer the client tools be separate as well, so that if you need the SSAS tool, you don't need everything else.

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