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Is Azure a good decision for a major production application deployment?


Is Azure a good decision for a major production application deployment?

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Glenn Tucker
Glenn Tucker
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Good morning,
We are migrating databases to SQL Azure to leave the current older infrastructure. The decisions was made to not upgrade the infrastructure. The thought was to migrate to the new cloud technology.

The issue we are seeing is that SQL Azure appears to be slower and more complicated.

1. We normally deploy major vendor applications with the vendor database. We would normally create another database outside of the vendor database for custom tables. However, with SQL Azure, you can't just query across databases. You have to create elastic queries. I am reading that you need to create shards, shard manager, a shard application and a bunch of other things.

2. The cross database querying with SQL Azure elastic querying seems to be a lot slower.

Has any one deployed a major vendor application using SQL Azure as the database backend? Does it seem to anyone that for major vendor applications that it may still be better to spin up a real good SQL Server VM on premise?

Thanks for any opinion that you may have to share as we plan our databases deployments for this year.

Tony

Things will work out. Get back up, change some parameters and recode.
Eric M Russell
Eric M Russell
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Yes, SQL Azure's contained database model will take some getting used to, but the issue isn't just about security, there are technical reasons why this is done. In a cloud hosted environment, the infrastructure topology isn't as static as it is with on-premises databases. Databases are routinely shuffled between VMs and data centers, so joining across databases is problematic.

1. Work with SQL Azure by containing your user add-on tables in a separate schema rather than a separate database.
2. SQL Azure and on-premises are not the only two options, there is also Azure IaaS (infrastructure as a server) hosting where Microsoft provides an instance of Windows Azure upon which you provision a preconfigured non-Azure instance of SQL Server, or you can install SQL Server using your own preexisting media and license.


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
Glenn Tucker
Glenn Tucker
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Eric M Russell - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:16 AM
Yes, SQL Azure's contained database model will take some getting used to, but the issue isn't just about security, there are technical reasons why this is done. In a cloud hosted environment, the infrastructure topology isn't as static as it is with on-premises databases. Databases are routinely shuffled between VMs and data centers, so joining across databases is problematic.

1. Contain your user add-on tables in a separate schema rather than a separate database.
2. SQL Azure and on-premises are not the only two options, there is also Azure IaaS hosting where Microsoft provides an instance of Windows Azure upon which you provision a preconfigured non-Azure instance of SQL Server, or you can install SQL Server using your own media and license.

Now that is a good point that I hadn't considered.

1. Deploy the vendor database.
2. Add custom objects with a different schema which keeps the objects in the database. However, if the vendor reloads or changes anything, custom changes aren't necessarily lost. That is a good point.
3. That should help query performance by keeping the objects in the same database.

Good point!

Thanks.<

Things will work out. Get back up, change some parameters and recode.
Eric M Russell
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WebTechie - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:23 AM
Eric M Russell - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:16 AM
Yes, SQL Azure's contained database model will take some getting used to, but the issue isn't just about security, there are technical reasons why this is done. In a cloud hosted environment, the infrastructure topology isn't as static as it is with on-premises databases. Databases are routinely shuffled between VMs and data centers, so joining across databases is problematic.

1. Contain your user add-on tables in a separate schema rather than a separate database.
2. SQL Azure and on-premises are not the only two options, there is also Azure IaaS hosting where Microsoft provides an instance of Windows Azure upon which you provision a preconfigured non-Azure instance of SQL Server, or you can install SQL Server using your own media and license.

Now that is a good point that I hadn't considered.

1. Deploy the vendor database.
2. Add custom objects with a different schema which keeps the objects in the database. However, if the vendor reloads or changes anything, custom changes aren't necessarily lost. That is a good point.
3. That should help query performance by keeping the objects in the same database.

Good point!

Thanks.<

Yes, confirm with the vendor if they support creation of user defined schemas and objects. I'm not sure what product this is, but not usual for a vendor to dump and reload the database practically ever, especially without advanced warning.


"The universe is complicated and for the most part beyond your control, but your life is only as complicated as you choose it to be."
David Atkinson
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WebTechie - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:00 AM
Good morning,
We are migrating databases to SQL Azure to leave the current older infrastructure. The decisions was made to not upgrade the infrastructure. The thought was to migrate to the new cloud technology.

The issue we are seeing is that SQL Azure appears to be slower and more complicated.

1. We normally deploy major vendor applications with the vendor database. We would normally create another database outside of the vendor database for custom tables. However, with SQL Azure, you can't just query across databases. You have to create elastic queries. I am reading that you need to create shards, shard manager, a shard application and a bunch of other things.

2. The cross database querying with SQL Azure elastic querying seems to be a lot slower.

Has any one deployed a major vendor application using SQL Azure as the database backend? Does it seem to anyone that for major vendor applications that it may still be better to spin up a real good SQL Server VM on premise?

Thanks for any opinion that you may have to share as we plan our databases deployments for this year.

Tony


Out of interest, is the application a web app, or a desktop app, and will the app piece be on Azure or on premise?

Glenn Tucker
Glenn Tucker
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David Atkinson - Monday, January 23, 2017 3:43 PM
WebTechie - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:00 AM
Good morning,
We are migrating databases to SQL Azure to leave the current older infrastructure. The decisions was made to not upgrade the infrastructure. The thought was to migrate to the new cloud technology.

The issue we are seeing is that SQL Azure appears to be slower and more complicated.

1. We normally deploy major vendor applications with the vendor database. We would normally create another database outside of the vendor database for custom tables. However, with SQL Azure, you can't just query across databases. You have to create elastic queries. I am reading that you need to create shards, shard manager, a shard application and a bunch of other things.

2. The cross database querying with SQL Azure elastic querying seems to be a lot slower.

Has any one deployed a major vendor application using SQL Azure as the database backend? Does it seem to anyone that for major vendor applications that it may still be better to spin up a real good SQL Server VM on premise?

Thanks for any opinion that you may have to share as we plan our databases deployments for this year.

Tony


Out of interest, is the application a web app, or a desktop app, and will the app piece be on Azure or on premise?




The app is a web app. It will be mostly hosted in SQL Azure. However, some components will be in SQL Server 2016 on premise.

Things will work out. Get back up, change some parameters and recode.
Arjun Sivadasan
Arjun Sivadasan
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@Glenn Wondering if you have started using the Azure SQL Managed Instance? Will be great to hear about your experiences with it.
Jeff Moden
Jeff Moden
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Eric M Russell - Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:16 AM
Yes, SQL Azure's contained database model will take some getting used to, but the issue isn't just about security, there are technical reasons why this is done. In a cloud hosted environment, the infrastructure topology isn't as static as it is with on-premises databases. Databases are routinely shuffled between VMs and data centers, so joining across databases is problematic.

1. Work with SQL Azure by containing your user add-on tables in a separate schema rather than a separate database.
2. SQL Azure and on-premises are not the only two options, there is also Azure IaaS (infrastructure as a server) hosting where Microsoft provides an instance of Windows Azure upon which you provision a preconfigured non-Azure instance of SQL Server, or you can install SQL Server using your own preexisting media and license.


I'm liking the cloud less and less.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced ree-bar and is a Modenism for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. -- Red Adair

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Forum FAQs
Arjun Sivadasan
Arjun Sivadasan
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Why no love Jeff? Smile
Azure SQL Managed Instance, apparently, lets you "lift and shift" and removes a lot of the restrictions previously in place for Azure SQL.

Jeff Moden
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Arjun Sivadasan - Sunday, April 29, 2018 10:58 PM
Why no love Jeff? Smile
Azure SQL Managed Instance, apparently, lets you "lift and shift" and removes a lot of the restrictions previously in place for Azure SQL.


Heh... let me know when they finally get it right. Wink

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced ree-bar and is a Modenism for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column.
If you think its expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. -- Red Adair

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Forum FAQs
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