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Developers vs. DBAs


Developers vs. DBAs

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Jim Youmans-439383
Jim Youmans-439383
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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Developers vs. DBAs
Eirikur Eiriksson
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Thanks Jim, a worthy subject, although somewhat simplified. Often it tends to be not only two sides but four or five, including database developers, business analysts and solution-, database- and systems- architects as the spanners in the works.

In my experience, it doesn't take a huge effort to even out the differences but it's still an effort.
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geoffrey.sturdy
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the problem is that the two are fundementally at odds - DBA promote stability and reliability , developers promote "Constructive destabilisaton"
Gary Varga
Gary Varga
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geoffrey.sturdy (6/12/2014)
the problem is that the two are fundementally at odds - DBA promote stability and reliability , developers promote "Constructive destabilisaton"


...and that isn't going to cause offense by using a huge generalisation that promotes one side whilst knocking the other. Grandiose words hide nothing.

What was it you said? Flame on?

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
geoffrey.sturdy
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No Gary - that's how things are - when you roll out changes you by their nature de-stabilise a system , ususally there is a good reason for doing so - hence the term "constructive de-stabilisation" , however a DBA's sucess is measured in uptime so there is a conflict as both sides measure sucess in a different manner - and I say this as having been a developer (back in the 1980s) and DBA in both Codasyl and relational databases - no offence to developers intended
Gary Varga
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In my opinion the problems lies in the following often being the case:

    1) Management using one team as a leverage against the other (usually in both directions)

    2) A lack of understanding of the issues facing the other team (again in both directions)

    3) No scope allowed to cater for the other team (often management favours one team but which one varies)

    4) Poor skills (if someone isn't good at their own job then don't expect them to even try to understand yours - also applicable to both)

    5) Job protection (same for all)


The problem lies in that we often work in environments where competition for resources is fierce so we would be naive to think that it doesn't permeate throughout. Better organisations try to avoid this by attempting to make all internal competition fair and based on the underlying principle that what is selected should be what is best for the organisation overall (including all its stakeholders).

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Gary Varga
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geoffrey.sturdy (6/12/2014)
No Gary - that's how things are - when you roll out changes you by their nature de-stabilise a system , ususally there is a good reason for doing so - hence the term "constructive de-stabilisation" , however a DBA's sucess is measured in uptime so there is a conflict as both sides measure sucess in a different manner - and I say this as having been a developer (back in the 1980s) and DBA in both Codasyl and relational databases - no offence to developers intended


So any roll out of changes by developers "by their nature de-stabilise a system".

But any roll out of changes DBAs "promote stability and reliability".

How on earth can that be anything but a generalisation that causes divides between two parties?

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Grant Fritchey
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Personally, I think the blame lies mostly with the DBAs. Ten to Fifteen years ago, when all the modern development paradigms were starting to shake out, when object oriented programming was really getting to its feet, DBAs acted like a bunch of over-protective jerks. Yeah, we had reason to be. You want to ensure that the database is online, accurate, and, if possible, fast. So we stood in the way of developers and tried to dictate what they do, slowed them down, threw up road blocks. But the developers still needed to respond to the business and move things fast. So, they bypassed us at every opportunity.

Now, I sit in developers conferences, because I try to go to those to present, as a DBA, and listen to how we're no longer needed, dinosaurs on our way out, etc. But, I hear how they hit problems with their tools, aren't sure how to solve some of them, are concerned about downtime, etc. In short, all stuff DBAs could contribute to if we could get re-invited to the table.

At this point, both sides are to blame for not recognizing that it's not code or data that's important, it's the business.

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tim.berry 88829
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Change your releases so that the developer and DBA relationship can be improved with non-functional releases. The business users that quite often drive the I.T. department need educating on the technical aspects of running systems. Having technical releases allow for database patches to be formalised and code optimisations to be written. Over time these formal technical releases educate the parties as to each others role. They need to be formal, described and discussed so the business user, developer and DBA are educated by them.
Gary Varga
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A quick (and slightly biased) question: I am a developer whose only community that I am active on is this, so how many of you DBAs are active on developer forums?

NOTE: This is not supposed to be a loaded gun sort of a question even though it could be read that way. I know many developers who get by with as little knowledge (often incorrect) as they can about the RDBMSes that they deal with. They shouldn't. They should be places like here. This question is asking the DBAs out there whether they behave more like Grant, for example, or not. (Pointless asking developers here the same question because, well, they are here :smoooothSmile

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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