April 22, 2014 at 8:25 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Open Source the MCM
April 23, 2014 at 1:49 am
I can see Microsoft's dilemma here. Clearly all the goodwill etc. would be great for Microsoft if they open sourced MCM, however, it would be providing comprehensive training materials for versions of SQL Server that they would rather we all would be upgrading from.
I can see the benefits to the community and thus to Microsoft but as what cost?
Part of me doesn't care about Microsoft making money. Part of me does. I have made a living as an [make it up - in your own mind you can either think well of me or not] mainly within the Microsoft stack so my continuing success depends on Microsoft's continuing success. Yes, I could easily transfer my skills to different technologies but the definition of "easily" does not include "without effort" 😉
Having said that, I believe that open sourcing the material would be better in the short/medium term for DBAs et al AND would be good for Microsoft in the long term.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 23, 2014 at 2:14 am
I really like the idea, but I suspect the lawyers would stamp on it quite firmly.
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
April 23, 2014 at 4:44 am
Gary, I think if MS open-sourced the MCM questions and scenarios, you'd fairly quickly find people using them as templates to create new questions and scenarios for newer versions of SQL.
I wouldn't have minded looking at going after the MCM, but I didn't think I had the broad enough knowledge base to get it. Money was also a factor. Being able to try working through the questions and scenarios, would be an excellent method to see where my skills need strengthening.
April 23, 2014 at 4:51 am
jasona.work (4/23/2014)
Gary, I think if MS open-sourced the MCM questions and scenarios, you'd fairly quickly find people using them as templates to create new questions and scenarios for newer versions of SQL...
I would like to think so but never assume (or at least try not to).
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 23, 2014 at 5:08 am
jasona.work (4/23/2014)
Gary, I think if MS open-sourced the MCM questions and scenarios, you'd fairly quickly find people using them as templates to create new questions and scenarios for newer versions of SQL.
Therein lies the problem. What's to stop someone forking it with good old favourites like;
Q. "What do you do when your database is in suspect mode?"
A. "Detatch the database, delete the log file, reattatch the database. Everything will be fine"
or
A. "Run dbcc checkdb repair allow data loss. What could possibly go wrong"
all with a shiny OpenMCM <Insert animal logo here> badge. There'd need to be some form of quality control in there, and I can't see MS taking that on board
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
April 23, 2014 at 6:58 am
A lot of the fun of the MCM lab was that the questions had surprising catches. The questions and answers alone weren't enough - the lab environment itself had tricky gotchas that you had to solve in order to get to the solution.
This wasn't one of the questions, but it has the same spirit. Say I gave you two virtual machines, each of which were running their own SQL Server instances, with transactional replication flowing between them. Your question would involve adding an index to one of the databases, but you'd have to know that doing it would break replication, and you'd have to know how to work around it. (Especially if somebody had already made hand-coded changes to the replication stored procs.)
April 23, 2014 at 7:04 am
Brent Ozar (4/23/2014)
A lot of the fun of the MCM lab was that the questions had surprising catches. The questions and answers alone weren't enough - the lab environment itself had tricky gotchas that you had to solve in order to get to the solution.
And the time constraint was a large part of the challenge.
Nothing in my lab exam was extremely difficult, given enough time to research and figure it out. The challenge was that there wasn't time to research and figure it out.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 23, 2014 at 7:14 am
Of course, by breaking the MCM mold, Microsoft has insured that these minted certifications are now even more exclusive and valuable. 🙂
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 23, 2014 at 7:20 am
andrew gothard (4/23/2014)
jasona.work (4/23/2014)
Gary, I think if MS open-sourced the MCM questions and scenarios, you'd fairly quickly find people using them as templates to create new questions and scenarios for newer versions of SQL.Therein lies the problem. What's to stop someone forking it with good old favourites like;
Q. "What do you do when your database is in suspect mode?"
A. "Detatch the database, delete the log file, reattatch the database. Everything will be fine"
or
A. "Run dbcc checkdb repair allow data loss. What could possibly go wrong"
all with a shiny OpenMCM <Insert animal logo here> badge. There'd need to be some form of quality control in there, and I can't see MS taking that on board
I don't think the intent of the editorial was for people / companies to create any sort of "OpenMCM" cert, but more to just allow people who either didn't get the chance, didn't feel ready, or are looking to see what they may need to improve on.
Not to say an "OpenMCM" cert might not be a bad idea, but I think it would quickly become apparent which ones are worthwhile, and which ones aren't.
The "Joe's school of DBAing OpenMCM" would be looked at as a joke, while an OpenMCM from "Brent Ozar, Inc," or "Gail Shaws School of SQL" would be shining beacons of certification...
😀
(OK, OK, I'll quit sucking up :hehe: )
April 23, 2014 at 7:24 am
Taking the questions/scenarios out of the context of the lab environment (strange environment, limited time, no internet just BOL) would detract from the experience that most of us had taking the exam. I'm not apposed to releasing the questions, but it wouldn't be the same. I think the knowledge exam would be a great set of questions that could be released to the public, but some of those questions could be reused in the current exams.
April 23, 2014 at 7:27 am
My reading of the editorial was that the material would be good for self-learning NOT so others can resurrect the MCM certification.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
April 23, 2014 at 7:42 am
GilaMonster (4/23/2014)
Brent Ozar (4/23/2014)
A lot of the fun of the MCM lab was that the questions had surprising catches. The questions and answers alone weren't enough - the lab environment itself had tricky gotchas that you had to solve in order to get to the solution.And the time constraint was a large part of the challenge.
Nothing in my lab exam was extremely difficult, given enough time to research and figure it out. The challenge was that there wasn't time to research and figure it out.
I'd have to agree here. I thought the bigger issues boiled down to time management and BOL use. I like the gotchas and they were necessary in the environment to help demonstrate troubleshooting.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 23, 2014 at 7:59 am
jasona.work (4/23/2014)
The "Joe's school of DBAing OpenMCM" would be looked at as a joke, while an OpenMCM from "Brent Ozar, Inc," or "Gail Shaws School of SQL" would be shining beacons of certification...
😀
(OK, OK, I'll quit sucking up :hehe: )
HA! Well, the problem is that it'd be an incredibly expensive program to run. I was part of the group that built the 2012 labs (which apparently never saw the light of day) and a quick back-of-the-envelope guess would be around half a million USD of labor. It's way, way more expensive than it sounds if you want it to be legally defensible.
Plus the only people who can write MCM exams would be...MCMs, and at that point, you're talking about fairly expensive labor. Writing tests just doesn't pay that well.
April 23, 2014 at 8:18 am
Brent Ozar (4/23/2014)
...Plus the only people who can write MCM exams would be...MCMs, and at that point, you're talking about fairly expensive labor. Writing tests just doesn't pay that well.
So the answer is to send money to Gaz's Shonkey School of Certificates and my kids I will generate with WordArt send you a pathetic authentic Mikrosopht Certifiable Master certificate.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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