SQL Clone
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 


Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire


Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire

Author
Message
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 63128 Visits: 19114
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
ralph.bacon
ralph.bacon
Valued Member
Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)Valued Member (65 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 65 Visits: 45
So true. I'm a "solutions provider" / "developer" / "current vogue name" writing SQL-based intranet (dot net) solutions.

Whilst I have a rough idea of what is going on behind the scenes on our SQL boxes there is no one actively managing them. Once in blue moon I check the logs but they could be filling up even as I write this with some esoteric error message that I wouldn't understand nor be able to fix.

Because they have run this way for the best part of two years everyone (me included, I suppose) assume that things are OK. And for internal, intranet based solutions we can probably get away with this. Imagine the same attitude being adopted for an external, client-facing server though!

I rely so much on the articles on SQLServerCentral just to get by, but there are only so many hours in the day (and only so many grey cells in my head) to absorb the information - and SQL Admin is not my core job, just a platform I use to get solutions implemented.

Actively managing a SQL server (and understanding what it is you should be managing and pre-empting) is IMHO a necessity. I used to be a Lotus Domino DB Admin and that took 100% of my time (bigger solutions, many servers admittedly, but things did need managing to avoid a meltdown).

How do you get that message across to management who just see the SQL server running quite happily and a DBA as an additional expense with no perceived benefit - before total meltdown?
jay-h
jay-h
SSCommitted
SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)SSCommitted (1.9K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1915 Visits: 2337
I enjoy perodically getting dumped into a 'sink or swim' situation, as long as the expectations are realistic. That's how I started in SQL years ago (my database experience before that was primarily Access).

My new challenge is a complete revamp of our network based fax system (it has a SQL backend) and I am rapidly learning about telecom hardware and protocols (the vendors involved are lending considerable expertise to the project). It's a bit scary, but exhilarating as well.

...

-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
TravisDBA
TravisDBA
SSCommitted
SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)SSCommitted (2K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 1998 Visits: 3069
No one I know of "enjoys" walking into a firestorm. That said though, I have learned an enormous amount by doing so. Both, in further developing my overall skill set by my learning how to quickly think and react on my feet in these situations under pressure, and also by learning what situations/environments to avoid in the future by accurate assessing it (ie: spotting the red flags) during the interview, long before I actually walk into it. :-D

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 63128 Visits: 19114
ralph.bacon (8/1/2012)

How do you get that message across to management who just see the SQL server running quite happily and a DBA as an additional expense with no perceived benefit - before total meltdown?


Not sure you can, until there is some issue. When you can't fix something or it takes you a long time, or performance impacts users, you can document these things and use them as a case for getting some help or training, but other than that, not sure.

The flip side is how do you know when things will break? If it's not for 5 years, does it matter? Ten years? Is it worth paying someone for 5 years while everything works?

It's a tricky situation.

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
OCTom
OCTom
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)Hall of Fame (3.1K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3131 Visits: 4152
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/1/2012)
ralph.bacon (8/1/2012)

How do you get that message across to management who just see the SQL server running quite happily and a DBA as an additional expense with no perceived benefit - before total meltdown?


Not sure you can, until there is some issue. When you can't fix something or it takes you a long time, or performance impacts users, you can document these things and use them as a case for getting some help or training, but other than that, not sure.

The flip side is how do you know when things will break? If it's not for 5 years, does it matter? Ten years? Is it worth paying someone for 5 years while everything works?

It's a tricky situation.


You probably don't want to pay a DBA in those cases, but, you should have a consulting firm on contract. They will have the people to call in to handle the emergency situations. They could also be contracted to come in monthly (or some other frequency) to review the servers and issue a report. This is how I've seen it done in small shops where the expertise is not in-house.
Miles Neale
Miles Neale
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)Hall of Fame (3K reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 3048 Visits: 1694
Steve,

For a year or so I took the time to do some knowledge transfer to unknown new developers in C# on a large message board to help educate those who are starting and learning. I tried to not answer all the questions directly but to point people to answers or places where answers could be found so they also learned the necessary skill of debugging and digging for answers.

I have also started to assist others in using of one of the more popular Content Management Open Source products as to help others again but also to better my understand and advance my skills.

Really we should openly help others for two reasons, first to give back, but second and almost more importantly by assisting others with their problems we expand our understanding of software, situations, logic and logic traps we set for ourselves. When you help others you also help yourself. So Share what you know and you will know more, or hide what you know and become less knowing.

Have a great day, and thanks for bringing us along on this educational ride. It is appreciated.

M.

Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
ganotedp
ganotedp
SSC Rookie
SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)SSC Rookie (35 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 35 Visits: 202
Steve: And I thought you were going to wrap up with some horrible joke about how your career progressed from waiting on tables (in restaurants) to waiting on tables (in SQL Server). Thankfully you didn't. :-D
IowaTechBear
IowaTechBear
Valued Member
Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)Valued Member (72 reputation)

Group: General Forum Members
Points: 72 Visits: 111
I am so glad to see this as the topic of your editorial today.

I am scheduled to do a presentation at SQL Saturday #161 that I titled "Yesterday I couldn't even spell 'DBA'..." :-D I even have a post somewhere on here under SQL Server 2008 > SQL Server Newbies > titled "Enlisted or Drafted" where I hoped to get people to weigh in on the subject and maybe tell their own tales.

I definetely was drafted. Although I have been designing and coding databases ever since 1980, the days of the 6502 CPU, making the transition from developer to DBA is a bit jarring.w00t I had only started developing in SQL 7 when the development company where I worked decided to also do some SQL Server hosting. I was drafted and glad I did if for nothing else than to stop them from their normal backup plan. Their plan was to not use SQL Server backups but to let everything get backed up to tape without even stopping the services.

I quickly learned as much as I could and my boss was supportive, even allowing me to study and finish my MCSE then take the last two tests to get my MCDBA.

One problem I run into with developers is that they can't seem to wrap their minds around the concept of result sets (RBAR) or the concept of a database server. Some just thought that SQL Server was the same as having Visual FoxPro or Access available on a network share.

Please tell me more of what your experiences and what you found helpful and what you wish you had known when you made the transition!

-----------------
Larry
(What color is your database?)
Steve Jones
Steve Jones
SSC Guru
SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)SSC Guru (63K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Points: 63128 Visits: 19114
ganotedp (8/1/2012)
Steve: And I thought you were going to wrap up with some horrible joke about how your career progressed from waiting on tables (in restaurants) to waiting on tables (in SQL Server). Thankfully you didn't. :-D



LOL, that would be a bad joke, wouldn't it?

Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
Go


Permissions

You can't post new topics.
You can't post topic replies.
You can't post new polls.
You can't post replies to polls.
You can't edit your own topics.
You can't delete your own topics.
You can't edit other topics.
You can't delete other topics.
You can't edit your own posts.
You can't edit other posts.
You can't delete your own posts.
You can't delete other posts.
You can't post events.
You can't edit your own events.
You can't edit other events.
You can't delete your own events.
You can't delete other events.
You can't send private messages.
You can't send emails.
You can read topics.
You can't vote in polls.
You can't upload attachments.
You can download attachments.
You can't post HTML code.
You can't edit HTML code.
You can't post IFCode.
You can't post JavaScript.
You can post emoticons.
You can't post or upload images.

Select a forum

































































































































































SQLServerCentral


Search