August 31, 2011 at 12:35 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Special Cloud
August 31, 2011 at 12:43 am
I still view cloud as a matter simple renting servers but to get to rent them, you have to change your systems architecture completely. From what I've seen, azure has a long way still to go.
The power of the cloud does not at all seam to be processing power as one might think. You have to add roles for more cpu power etc. You have to do this while having no clue how much power you actually get, it's trial and error.
Another issue is the 30s limit on transactions. Ok granted, sql queries should never take this long, but since you do not know the strength of your service that you have rented, you do not know how much you need to tune your systems. What takes 2 seconds in one of the powerful servers you have today might take 20 seconds in the cloud. If you want to do a huge calculation, analyzing the market for instance, inserting millions of transactions and then doing the calculation, you have to batch this up in bits and pieces. Even the calculation itself! Because, if 30s is passed, you're screwed, your command is aborted.
So from my point of view, seeing how there are so many uncertain factors, only the "brave" would go for the cloud before we've seen some maturity of their services.
August 31, 2011 at 1:01 am
But: is the cloud really secure ??? Everybody's moving to the cloud, companies or private persons are putting their data, also sensitive data, outside on a server somewhere in the world. Never forget, everything can be cracked....
Patrick SIMONS, MCP
August 31, 2011 at 1:33 am
PatrickSimons (8/31/2011)
But: is the cloud really secure ??? Everybody's moving to the cloud, companies or private persons are putting their data, also sensitive data, outside on a server somewhere in the world. Never forget, everything can be cracked....
That is a very interesting question. The Swedish military certainly does not think so as it will not even send request for quotation to companies that makes use of cloud, it's one of the criteria.
Just like those working on dropbox can access everything you have in there, there is no reason a cloud company would not be able to do this.
August 31, 2011 at 2:45 am
I think they need to get past leaving things on trains or sending CDs with millions of records of data via Royal Mail (and then it getting lost!) before they even jump to cloud services here in the UK.
It seems government offices here know more about losing data than keeping it safe and introducing cloud services would just make a much bigger mess.
August 31, 2011 at 6:37 am
Growing up, there was a phrase; "He has his head in the clouds" that suggests such a person is not paying attention, or aware of the consequences of what they are doing...
This past week a relative of mine told me that they have subscribed to one of these cloud-based backup services, and then asked me "do you think that was a wise idea?". I asked; "Did you carefully read the license agreement?" The answer of course was "No" - who reads all that legal-ease, and anyway this will now save them from buying any backup hardware.
About two days later I got a call from them in panic... "I just actually read the license agreement and it states that if they screw up or lose all my data, I have agreed not to hold them liable!!!"... Yeah, welcome to cloud-computing - too bad you clicked "I agree" before actually reading the agreement.
Its all very interesting what we are doing with the cloud and this morning's editorial brings more of that. But I still cannot help corresponding the cloud with what this country did with asbestos. We stuck it all over the place before realizing it kills people. Companies that made a fortune selling it, are now bankrupt and out of business. And people are still dying from the affects.
Sure, the cloud isnt going to kill anyone - but here we are again pushing something forward in Technology that is really still just an idea and we're making it up as we go along. That, and the fact that most average users dont read license agreements, bodes some future disaster where once again we look back and wonder - why didnt we think this through?
Simple: There's money to be made, and damn the end-users.
August 31, 2011 at 6:39 am
I have security and ROI concerns over this. The security concerns stem from not having control over every piece of hardware. Granted, there are companies with this complete control that are still not secure, so perhaps this isn't a valid concern. The ROI concerns center around cost. Will this system cost more to operate than housing your own hardware and hiring your own IT dept? It's the US government, so chances are there will still be a huge bureaucracy involved with or without owning their own equipment.
I want it to work, but to me it feels like throwing money at a problem without solving any of it.
August 31, 2011 at 7:21 am
Mattrick (8/31/2011)
I want it to work, but to me it feels like throwing money at a problem without solving any of it.
For migrating existing applications to the cloud, I agree. That can be the case. But for new projects the initial input is much, much less than getting new hardware set up so I don't think that's the case there.
There are already several government projects running in the cloud and I'm hoping it's cheaper to run them there than with owned hardware but I haven't seen numbers either way.
August 31, 2011 at 10:30 am
cfradenburg (8/31/2011)
Mattrick (8/31/2011)
I want it to work, but to me it feels like throwing money at a problem without solving any of it.For migrating existing applications to the cloud, I agree. That can be the case. But for new projects the initial input is much, much less than getting new hardware set up so I don't think that's the case there.
There are already several government projects running in the cloud and I'm hoping it's cheaper to run them there than with owned hardware but I haven't seen numbers either way.
So you do not want to handle the hardware yourself, why not just rent power from a company with a vm environment for you to grow in?
August 31, 2011 at 11:24 am
that is an important point - anything can be cracked- including those systems not in the cloud.
So are we more vulnerable with scattered disparate systems connected to one Internet, or with a few cloud systems connected to one Internet?:unsure:
September 1, 2011 at 3:39 am
creeves 41422 (8/31/2011)
that is an important point - anything can be cracked- including those systems not in the cloud.
Sure everything can be cracked, also local systems. But companies have (or should have) at least control over their local systems. In a worst case scenario they could even cut the connection to the internet. They also know their employees, their network- and database admins.
In a cloud where the data is somewhere in the world, are the admins always honest? It might sound like in a fascinating thriller on TV: a larger company want to spy out another business rival that stores his sensitive data in the cloud; so they corrupt f.ex. the cloud admin - who knows.... 😉
Patrick SIMONS, MCP
September 1, 2011 at 6:48 am
It appears we both agree risks abound. And certainly espionage is more than a myth, but in reality security from within even of those you 'think' you know is more important than from without. As a former IT manager, having it happen in my shop and hearing of others experiences with the innocent lapses in judgement, failing to have or follow policy frequently exposed the data center whether these lapses were exploited or not - and that's just speaking of IS techs not the end users. Also, the same tools and techniques you would use to manage, and control your own employees can be applied to cloud managed systems.
Actually, I think the cloud systems have advantage here because even though most corporate systems are 24x7x365 they are not manned at that level, and usually things are on auto pilot through the night. As well, cloud system can afford to leverage much better appliances for monitoring and alerting than many smaller corporate entities.
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