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Did Oracle buy MySQL by accident? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:09 AM
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Larry has a history. That history is an obsession with beating IBM to death. Oracle produced the first relational database, based on Dr. Codd's work, before IBM. The software acquisition binge has been to further that end. So is the Sun acquisition, but not to get java. java is already theirs, to the extent they want it


The late brilliant Jim Grey version is different and I have to take that. Sun's Java is JDK that is like C# with Ecma that is not related in most cases with vendor extensions because Oracle through BEA and other purchases may actually be dealing with many unrelated Java versions. I prepared for Sun SCJP a while back before taking the C# exams.

MySql is not a useful steppingstone to Oracle. Postgres is (was and will be, too). Oracle is an MVCC database, while MySql and DB2 are traditional lockers. Unless InnoDB is written to MVCC semantics (how much work that requires, I don't know), MySql isn't an entry level Oracle. It's just another piece that's come along for the ride.


Per the link below both INNODB and the new Sun developed Falcon are MVCC. If Oracle wants to beat IBM then Oracle needs to find out why IBM is always selling hardware divisions and aggressively adding software assets like separate Dimension modeling BI team in Cognos and Prediction modeling team in SSPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiversion_concurrency_control






Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
Post #772897
Posted Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:53 AM
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Oracle bought Digital’s Rdb database that runs on the VMS platform to eliminate the competition. They couldn’t compete in the VMS world, because Digital included an Rdb run-time license with the OS, and Rdb had more advanced features than Oracle. First they sued Digital to stop them from including the run-time. Later, they bought Rdb and immediately raised support costs to be even higher than Oracle and stopped development to kill it off. Notice that they didn’t even mention Rdb in the list of database products in their announcement?

Looks like a road-map for what will happen to MySQL.



Post #772930
Posted Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:22 PM


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Per the link below both INNODB and the new Sun developed Falcon are MVCC. If Oracle wants to beat IBM then Oracle needs to find out why IBM is always selling hardware divisions and aggressively adding software assets like separate Dimension modeling BI team in Cognos and Prediction modeling team in SSPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiversion_concurrency_control






Yeah, I know. As I've already posted, brain cramp. IBM keeps buying various "service" companies because, like the banks and insurance companies, they think that return on real capital is higher when you don't have to actually have physical assets. That only goes so far. And they, mostly, depend on the z/390/370/360 platform. If Larry can best the platform, he wins both hardware and software battles. Oracle has already demonstrated that the MVCC database wins. All except DB2 (modulo 9.7, sort of) now do MVCC.

I remain convinced that Larry's goal is to replace the IBM mainframe platform. Do that, and he wins the software battle too, by default. He thinks big, and this is a Big Strategy. It's not a tactic. Java is a tactic.
Post #773017
Posted Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:24 PM


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Michael Valentine Jones (8/18/2009)
Oracle bought Digital’s Rdb database that runs on the VMS platform to eliminate the competition. They couldn’t compete in the VMS world, because Digital included an Rdb run-time license with the OS, and Rdb had more advanced features than Oracle. First they sued Digital to stop them from including the run-time. Later, they bought Rdb and immediately raised support costs to be even higher than Oracle and stopped development to kill it off. Notice that they didn’t even mention Rdb in the list of database products in their announcement?

Looks like a road-map for what will happen to MySQL.

Actually, they bought RDB to get the Clustering management and RDB's MVCC stuff. RDB was already on the chopping block and VMS already in sharp decline and no longer strategic for Oracle


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Post #773065
Posted Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:50 AM


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Maybe MYSQL was getting too much functionality. Oracle's charging model - massive upfront cost and then only renting the licence - will never compete with the outright purchase model of SQL Server. Their model makes the TCO for SMB's prohibitive, so as long as MS keeps improving SQL Server they will not have anything to fear from Oracle. MYSQL could give Oracle a vehicle for a low-cost solution, or as a previous post suggested, a cut-down starter version of oracle.

DaveT


BR DaveT
Post #774211
Posted Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:54 AM


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Maybe MYSQL was getting too much functionality. Oracle's charging model - massive upfront cost and then only renting the licence - will never compete with the outright purchase model of SQL Server. Their model makes the TCO for SMB's prohibitive, so as long as MS keeps improving SQL Server they will not have anything to fear from Oracle. MYSQL could give Oracle a vehicle for a low-cost solution, or as a previous post suggested, a cut-down starter version of oracle.

DaveT


BR DaveT
Post #774216
Posted Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:38 AM


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Actually, they bought RDB to get the Clustering management and RDB's MVCC stuff. RDB was already on the chopping block and VMS already in sharp decline and no longer strategic for Oracle


Oracle was MVCC from version 3 (some sources say 4), in 1983 (1984). What might they have gotten from DEC in 1994?
Post #774268
Posted Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:48 AM


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davtt (8/20/2009)
so as long as MS keeps improving SQL Server they will not have anything to fear from Oracle.

DaveT


No version of windoze will scale as well as *nix. That *nix can do what z machines do is a (the) reason Larry wants Sun. If you need Oracle horsepower, SQLServer won't do. If you need real MVCC and don't have the $$$, then Postgres is where you'll go. At least in the short term. Whether Snapshot Isolation can be made to behave enough like real MVCC is also an open question. The real issue is the OS. SQLServer has that albatross round its neck.
Post #774287
Posted Friday, August 21, 2009 9:16 AM
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No version of windoze will scale as well as *nix. That *nix can do what z machines do is a (the) reason Larry wants Sun. If you need Oracle horsepower, SQLServer won't do. If you need real MVCC and don't have the $$$, then Postgres is where you'll go. At least in the short term. Whether Snapshot Isolation can be made to behave enough like real MVCC is also an open question. The real issue is the OS. SQLServer has that albatross round its neck.


I am not sure about transaction related limitation in SQL Server because Oracle implemented and always improve the .NET based transaction model where different implementations are propagated to the RDBMS to be either consumed as Unit of Work ANSI SQL transaction or ADO.NET transaction.

A side note I think Postgres had a DARPA grant.

And the US Government have approved the sale so MySQL users mostly ISP that charges a few dollars a month for unlimited use may have to pay more because Oracle is not known for nickle and dime business model.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090821/ap_on_hi_te/us_oracle_sun



Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
Post #775157
Posted Friday, August 21, 2009 10:02 AM


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A side note I think Postgres had a DARPA grant.

And the US Government have approved the sale so MySQL users mostly ISP that charges a few dollars a month for unlimited use may have to pay more because Oracle is not known for nickle and dime business model.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090821/ap_on_hi_te/us_oracle_sun



The DARPA $$ were for Stonebraker at Berkley in 1986. That relationship is long gone.

Not sure of the timing any more (it was just before or just after the announcement of the buyout by Sun), but there are, at least, two forks of MySql; allegedly to return it to its roots, which is to say, a mere SQL parser in front of a file system. Those folks will not be Oracle customers, those folks don't do relational data. I'd wager that most moved out since Sun bought MySql. The first release under Sun is widely reported to have been less than useful.

In any case, MySql is GPL, so for those who don't want to deal with Larry, alternatives already exist.
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