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Posted Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:57 AM


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ta.bu.shi.da.yu (5/24/2009)
Absolutely! I'm just saying that I think that open source projects are more influencable or are quicker to implement changes than closed source companies. My $0.02.


You and I both agree on that. The thing we may not agree upon is that I don't believe the ability to make very quick changes is always an advantage. Having the ability to quickly change something is great especially when it comes to quickly repairing a mistake. I'll also suggest that having the ability to chickly change something will likely make you more prone to mistakes unless you have a stong regimen to prevent mistakes. That creates a bit of a paradox in my mind. That paradox is embodied by the old saw of "Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but there's always time to do it over?"


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Post #722739
Posted Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:09 AM
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saw of "Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but there's always time to do it over?"


and over, and over, and over - until we no longer remember what it was supposed to do in the first place.


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Post #722742
Posted Monday, May 25, 2009 2:02 AM
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I am just a programmer. Been in the business for over 10 years now, I have changed the way I code so many times, but when it comes to SQL code, its still the same, horribly the same :)

I Might create/use stuff to make things simpler, wrappers, helpers, flashy SQL text editors etc... But, it still is the same old SQL I learned in University

I say time for change, even if it is gradual
Post #722874
Posted Monday, May 25, 2009 6:45 AM
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Jeff Moden (5/24/2009)
ta.bu.shi.da.yu (5/24/2009)
Absolutely! I'm just saying that I think that open source projects are more influencable or are quicker to implement changes than closed source companies. My $0.02.


You and I both agree on that. The thing we may not agree upon is that I don't believe the ability to make very quick changes is always an advantage. Having the ability to quickly change something is great especially when it comes to quickly repairing a mistake. I'll also suggest that having the ability to chickly change something will likely make you more prone to mistakes unless you have a stong regimen to prevent mistakes. That creates a bit of a paradox in my mind. That paradox is embodied by the old saw of "Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but there's always time to do it over?"


Actually, I do agree with you. I work for a commercial, closed source software house that was recently purchased by EMC. I see a great deal of pluses and minuses to both approaches to development, and I certainly never believe that quick and ill-thought out changes are a good thing! Believe me, I've seen what happens when changes aren't thought through and implemented quickly. It ain't pretty...



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Post #722949
Posted Monday, May 25, 2009 6:46 AM
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Damus (5/25/2009)
I am just a programmer. Been in the business for over 10 years now, I have changed the way I code so many times, but when it comes to SQL code, its still the same, horribly the same :)

I Might create/use stuff to make things simpler, wrappers, helpers, flashy SQL text editors etc... But, it still is the same old SQL I learned in University

I say time for change, even if it is gradual


Why? Just because it's the same old thing doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. I'm curious as to your reasoning.


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Post #722950
Posted Monday, May 25, 2009 6:56 AM
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ta.bu.shi.da.yu (5/25/2009)
Damus (5/25/2009)
I am just a programmer. Been in the business for over 10 years now, I have changed the way I code so many times, but when it comes to SQL code, its still the same, horribly the same :)

I Might create/use stuff to make things simpler, wrappers, helpers, flashy SQL text editors etc... But, it still is the same old SQL I learned in University

I say time for change, even if it is gradual


Why? Just because it's the same old thing doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. I'm curious as to your reasoning.


Dont get me wrong :) it all still works, I am not attacking it. Just not evolving like other technologies. Maybe coz its very basic, or maybe coz they are pulled back with backward compatibility like someone posted earlier.
Post #722955
Posted Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:05 AM


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ChrisN
I questioned the choice of PowerShell as the core scripting language coming from my decades of scripting and development experience on another redgate forum and was told basically to shut up and enjoy the ride.


I hope it wasn't a Simple-Talk forum! Simple-Talk ran a number of PowerShell articles and we were surprised at the lack of keenness for the scripting shell. After quite a bit of debate, we came to the conclusion that it was just too arcane. Although it would be quixotic to believe we can change the general flight to Powershell, we can see IronPython and IronRuby being far easier to use for administrative scripting for a lot of folks. We're hedging our bets!

Here again, the 'softies' are a bit out-of-touch with the work in ordinary IT departments. When the subject of Powershell came up in the recent DB Teched sessions, the DBAs in the audience showed little enthusiasm, as Tony noted in his editorial when they were confronted with complex XQuery etc.. (I seem to have been as interested in the audience reaction to what was said from the rostrum, as in the talks themselves, but these were recorded anyway for posterity.)



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Post #723140
Posted Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:09 AM


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Interesting. A few experts that haved dived in heavily to Powershell and they seem to like it. It follows what I'd consider is a very simple format and structure.

Whether it's good or not, I think it will take off in the MS world since it will be built into every server in the next 3-5 years. At that point, you'll start using it as a default. Just like VBScript, which is relatively simple to start with, and then gets horribly convoluted, established itself since it was built into Windows.








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Post #723269
Posted Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:16 AM


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Damus (5/25/2009)
I am just a programmer. Been in the business for over 10 years now, I have changed the way I code so many times, but when it comes to SQL code, its still the same, horribly the same :)

I Might create/use stuff to make things simpler, wrappers, helpers, flashy SQL text editors etc... But, it still is the same old SQL I learned in University

I say time for change, even if it is gradual


SQL is changing slowly, but what is wrong with the language? It does what is supposed to do which is access data.



Lynn Pettis

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Post #723274
Posted Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:25 AM
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Lynn Pettis (5/26/2009)
Damus (5/25/2009)
I am just a programmer. Been in the business for over 10 years now, I have changed the way I code so many times, but when it comes to SQL code, its still the same, horribly the same :)

I Might create/use stuff to make things simpler, wrappers, helpers, flashy SQL text editors etc... But, it still is the same old SQL I learned in University

I say time for change, even if it is gradual


SQL is changing slowly, but what is wrong with the language? It does what is supposed to do which is access data.



/sigh. Seems I hit a taboo subject by saying that it is time to change. NOTHING is wrong with it.
Nothing is wrong with Pascal, or Cobol, or punchcards either. They all do what they are/were supposed to do.

Post #723278
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