Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 
        
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On


Add to briefcase 12»»

The December 2008 Energy Update Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:33 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Today @ 6:13 PM
Points: 33,198, Visits: 15,341
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The December 2008 Energy Update






Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #626333
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:32 AM


Mr or Mrs. 500

Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:03 AM
Points: 579, Visits: 2,520
The whole question of microgeneration in Britain is surrounded by Poppycock and balderdash, with generous lashings of baloney. I have been trying for years to harness the 45KW of energy that thunders through my old disused watermill. Politicians of all parts of the spectrum commission papers, discussions and conferences on the subject. The EU is full of pious cant on the subject of schemes like this, but provide no help whatsoever to those who live in sites that have the potential to generate electricity.

The practicalities of generation using a commercial turbine are ridiculous. Even at current energy prices, payback is something like 40 years. You can get a grant, but the conditions are so ridiculous as to be beyond satire. I would have to nominate a 'community' of users to use my electricity taken from a representative sample of the community (all racial types and sexual diversity). I'd also have to conform with a vast stack of regulations and health 'n Safety edicts. Even then, there is no guarantee that the Environment Agency, a pseudo-government quango responsible for the rivers, will not take away my right to exploit my own headrace, or demand that I maintain it myself. (i.e. maintain a canal three miles long, built before AD1000)

The powers that be, from European level down to local council, are all sending each other papers and emails on the subject of microgeneration, and smugly asserting that they are 'working' hard on the problem of generating electricity in a sustainable way, but nobody has thought to turn political drivel into practical action.

I have a plan. I reckon that the roman design of horizontal waterwheel represents the cheapest way of turning water flow into rotating motion at a reasonable speed. If one couples this to a commercial generator designed for the three-point linkage of a tractor, then you have a cheap and viable means of generation. I could then use commercial batteries designed for wind generators. I'm reluctant to try, given my experience of the numbing weight of office-bound officialdom that tries to put a stop to any unfettered initiative that would show up their pathetic inaction.





Best wishes,

Phil Factor
Simple Talk
Post #627154
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:34 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:43 AM
Points: 133, Visits: 111
It's always important to read BETWEEN the lines. Here's the most important line of that article:

And in Germany, passive houses cost only about 5 to 7 percent more to build than conventional houses.

While I don't believe we should be reckless about the environment and should most certainly use so called "green" technologies when it is actually cheaper, well over 60% of these so called "green" technologies are woefully inefficient and cannot exist without government intervention. The fact that it is supposedly cheaper is probably due in some small part to lower material cost, but I would wage a week's pay that it is because of gov't subsidies and tax credits. I inferred from Steve's post that even he wouldn't consider it without the tax credit.

If the idea can help the environment and work in the marketplace, great. However, my hard earned money(in the form of taxes) should not be wasted on concepts and products that do not work as promised or at all.
Post #627300
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:53 AM
SSCommitted

SSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommitted

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 8:21 PM
Points: 1,567, Visits: 1,904
Thanks for reminding me that I really need to finish insulating my basement. I'm putting 6" of insulation (R22) where I can down there and 4" everywhere else. The energy auditor said it should help considerably. I'd put more in the attic, but I have vermiculite up there and would rather leave that alone.

I'm hoping with the high efficiency furnace from last year and the new high efficiency windows this year my gas bill will be a bit lower. I have some insulation installed in the basement already, but it's less than half done.

I was surprised in that superinsulating piece that the insulation guidelines in MA are higher than here in northern Ontario. With the wind, -40 tends to be as cold as it gets but we have plenty of-20 C days up here.
Post #627320
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:08 AM
Grasshopper

GrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopper

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:27 AM
Points: 18, Visits: 280
three words "Straw bale houses"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=straw+houses&aq=f&oq=
Not quite like the Three Little Pigs

and belive it or not but asbestos is one of the best insulators
Post #627337
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:10 AM
SSC Rookie

SSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC Rookie

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:42 AM
Points: 27, Visits: 41
Steve,

Interesting editorial, if a bit off topic from SQL. I'll admit upfront to only a passing familiarity with wind power.

However, having been a building contractor in a previous career, I know that building super-insulated homes also have some drawbacks. Energy usage is only one attribute of a building's design. Since virtually all buildings are ultimately used for some sort of occupancy by humans (automated factories aside), their design should serve the people who will use them.

Super-insulation means extremely limited airflow in and out of the house. This lack of fresh air is actually a bad thing. Building in fresh air supplies that incorporate heat exchangers that allow an exchange of air with the outside without also allowing an exchange of energy is quite complex and costly.

Modern building materials exude toxic gases, and with more and more of the material in the house being manufactured this is just increasing. Cabinets, carpet and waferboard are all made with formaldehyde-based glues that will outgas for years.

For myself, I prefer to use a little more energy and insure that I get fresh, healthful air. but then, I live in a very temperate climate in Southern California.

I am looking at solar, though.
Post #627339
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:21 AM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Today @ 6:13 PM
Points: 33,198, Visits: 15,341
The article states that airflow is an issue, and you definitely need to control it and ensure fresh air is coming in. The heat exchanger, which passes outside and inside air, is one of the more expensive parts, but supposedly it works with 90% efficiency. Not sure how that's measured, but I've seen multiple articles since that first one where people are working on this.

I do think that passive solar, better insulation, some smarter techniques can work, but they need to be tested, deployed, and then regulated. That last part is the only way to reduce global energy. Individuals tend to do what's best for them, not the group.

I hear the complaint about taxes, but part of the tax credit purpose is to spur changes and innovations, not subsidize for everyone forever. This does get abused at times, but government can help move some of these technologies forward with a boost, and then remove the subsidies. That last part can be a problem, look at how many oil and gas still get.

Still I like the idea.

More and more as I research things, I'm not sure homeowner generation makes sense for wind. I'm not sure, but if you are trying to run a normal house, it seems to have a payback that's too high. However neighborhoods, or commercial properties might make more sense.








Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #627346
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:28 AM
Grasshopper

GrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopperGrasshopper

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:27 AM
Points: 18, Visits: 280
The big Issue with Green Energy is that the wind is not always blowing and the sun always shining,
It how to store the Energy when the wind is blow for when it's not. Sure it's nice to have a green house, but I can only bake on windy or Sunny days.

Sure we can just use batteries and store it, We full the Den with Car Battery or $Li-ion$.

The way I would go is store the Energy as Hydorgen useing Hydorstar
www.drewwomack.com/html/Run_a_car_on_water.pdf
Run Hot Water, Heating, Cooking off Hydorgen.
And when no wind or sun, Hydorgen micro turbine.
Post #627352
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:35 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 10:01 AM
Points: 4, Visits: 130
In your calculation of payback, you should also consider what it is worth to be able to generate your own electricity while the rest of the area has to do without when there are interruptions to your normal provider (I.e. storm damage, downed lines, etc.) This may not be the deciding factor, but for some people may have a significant value.
Post #627357
Posted Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:39 AM


SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:19 AM
Points: 153, Visits: 569
Thanks for the update, Steve.

One random thought: You've all no doubt noticed that oil prices are way down. In northern New Jersey where I live, we actually have a station selling gas for $1.39 a gallon. Who would have thought that was possible only 6 months ago? One of the reasons given in the press is that there is less consumption owing to the bad economy. So oddly, this has had a devastating effect on the price at the pump. I'm not a big fan of subsidized energy sources either, but this is a factor I hadn't previously considered. Cutting consumption of oil is driving the prices down (supposedly). If the government is hell-bent on giving us a stimulus, investing in things like windmills would create jobs and leave behind permanant improvements to infrastructure while moving us toward energy independence.

Incidentally, let's not forget the biggest "alternate" source that is known to work well: nuclear. I know it's controversial (sadly) but it's a known entity. During the presidential debates, one of the questions was "do we need a 'Manhattan project' for alternate energy?" My answer - absolutely not! We have something that works very well right now in nuclear. If we spend the kind of money people are suggesting for other alternatives on building nuclear and increasing the efficiency of spent fuel recycling we would have all the energy we need for the next century. And the extra electricity from nuclear could be used to make hydrogen for our cars.

Oh, well, 'nuff said. Have a great new year, everyone!


___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
Post #627361
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase 12»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse