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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 9:42 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Knowledge sharing

Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
Post #608029
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:05 AM


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I don't have a problem either helping rookies or being patient with them. I do have a problem with people that have a gazillion titles after their name and they "ask" things like "how to backup send answer with detailed steps immediately". Those kinds of "questions" don't sit well with me or a lot of other people who won't speak up about it, especially since the "answer" is in bloody Books Online and they never even looked! Questions like that are arrogant and stupid especially when they "brag" about how much they think they know by calling themselves Sr. DBA or have a bunch of titles after their name.

Everyone wants folks like me to be patient and, lordy, we try. But we also put up with a huge amount of abuse, arrogant demands, and a whole bunch of other hooie including some of the most poorly formed questions and data descriptions in the world. Even when we ask for clarification, it almost seems that some people are bothered by the fact we asked for clarification.

Your article is well founded, Manie... I wish people would take the time to be kind to us frequent posters and to remember we don't get paid to take as much crap as we do...

Some of my favorites are lists of interview questions and homework questions... and they're usually in some forum post with "urgent" in the title. People actually expect us to do their bloody homework for them. The world is full of people with titles that don't deserve them... I'm not gonna help someone else get that way. Why don't I just ignore the post? Because there's a lot of people out there that don't understand that people doing homework have to try and that I don't want folks just to give these future bad DBA's the answers. Same thing with the interview questions.

Heh... then there's the "intelligent" ones that say things like "performance" doesn't matter and will argue for hours about it. The only reason why I continue in such a debate is because I don't want any newbies to think that performance doesn't matter. With very, very few exceptions, it almost always matters because someone will pick up on bad code and use it.

I wish someone would write and article about how to post a question... oh, wait a minute! I DID! ;) And it's in my signature line and in the signature line of many of the heavy hitters. Do you think people take the time to read it even when we do point it out? Some do but most don't...

So yes... if you have intelligent questions, even if you're not sure exactly what to ask and you use just a little non-arrogant courtesy in a post, people will jump through hoops to help you. Take on the wrong attitude and it's pork chop time, boys and girls.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

"Change is inevitable. Change for the better is not." -- 04 August 2013
(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #608115
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:17 AM


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Erratum:
The following piece if code is incomplete and I have placed the correct code below this:
declare @datestring varchar(12)
set @datestring = convert(varchar(12),dateadd(d,-3,getdate()),1)EXECUTE master.dbo.xp_delete_file

The correct code:
declare @datestring varchar(12)
set @datestring = convert(varchar(12),dateadd(d,-3,getdate()),1)
EXECUTE master.dbo.xp_delete_file 0, N'D:\Orisys\Backup\',N'bak', @datestring

Now Jeff, I'd like to thank you for your post. You know what? I knew you were going to be the first to comment because I remember from a while back something that you said about this same subject. You are right in a way because I also don't like arrogant people but I was not talking about them. I was talking about rookies/newbies that are really struggling to do it and in the workplace you don't get a lot of people that wants to help and they find pleasure in seeing someone suffering and eventually even get fired because they don't come right.
If you just know how I struggled in the beginning and how these forums helped me. I am willing to share my little bit of knowledge with anyone.

Hey remember! Jesus loves you.


Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
Post #608192
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:34 AM


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Good article Manie.

This forum was my first experience of online forums and I am grateful for the help I get.

Because of the positive experience here I've joined forums for my other interests too and it really broadens my outlook to hear other peoples views.





Post #608202
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:27 AM


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Good article Manie,

SSC is gr8 forum with some good ppl who are really trying to help everyone.

As I like MS products (I'm MCITP Dev and DBA and soon be a MCSE) I also like to work in oracle and linux and I remembered how I was burned on one linux forum, I asked something about intrusion detection, penetration testing and exploits (preparing myself for CEH exam) and as an answer I got only RTFMs I've never got back to that forum ever again.


Politeness of members is essential for a gr8 forum and community.


-------------------------------------------------------------
"It takes 15 minutes to learn the game and a lifetime to master"
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality."


Post #608213
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 AM
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I Thank you Manie for posting something like this. It did experience exactly the same thing as I was learning SQL. As there are demanding request from other more senior folks, there are also arrogant office mates that would not help. Until someone new came along that knew a lot of things that we helped each other out did I start to learn.

I however want to point out that if a new person comes into this line of work, for them to take
the initiative to read, research and practice. Most DBA's starting out almost use the Sr. ones as
a crutch and never want to give it some effort before asking the questions.

When my Jr. DBA's ask me a question, I tell them to look it up first and then we can discuss if they still have any questions. I provide them with a DBA Test environment of which they can practice and learn before they mess with production servers and databases.

Post #608254
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:15 AM
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I spent three days building a simple two node cluster using a lab server with VMWare Server installed.

Not as easy as it sounds given that I'm not a server administrator by trade (Systems Integrator)

I Had to figure out how to create a cluster, had to figure out how to get VMWare Server to allow me to share a drive, and had to figure out how to share resources. I could have just called an Exchange administrator, those guys do this all the time with the Exchange servers, though they don't do it with virtual servers, but I chose to use my favorite method of learning, Google.

In the end, I had a two node virtual cluster with a file share and website that had full failover capabilities.

The lesson I learned was then documented and posted to my company blog. If anyone asks, I'll just send them a link to the article.

The one that will really bother me is the one guy at work (there is one guy who...) who will call me two hours after I leave the office to discuss his shortcomings as a VB scripter. (Hey, I'm trying to...)

Since I'm on call for a product I manage, I'll answer the phone and politely and patiently explain it to him AGAIN. I won't charge the company for the time because I'm salaried and I'll secretly wish this guy would just fall victim to the next round of labor reductions.

I digress though, good article.

Regards,

Ron Hagerman
Post #608270
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:41 AM
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Manie makes some very good points. I wish SQLServerCentral had been around in 1994 when I started working with SQL Server.

And Jeff makes a good point too. Not enough of you guys get credit for posting knowledge and wisdom on your own initiative without the thought of recompense. I know I come here because of the wealth of information represented by the membership. I can always find something interesting to read, frequently an answer to a question (whether or not I knew I had the question) and I can occasionally put my 2 cents in for some value.

But I think we all owe thanks to folks like Jeff and Steve and all the other experienced people who post information for the rest of us to make use of. Thanks, guys. You don't hear it often enough, but I believe you help more than you know. Just look at the number of members. That says something by itself.


------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Post #608293
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:52 AM


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Manie Verster (11/25/2008)
I was talking about rookies/newbies that are really struggling to do it and in the workplace you don't get a lot of people that wants to help and they find pleasure in seeing someone suffering and eventually even get fired because they don't come right.


Understood... even said that folks like me cater to newbies... so long as they don't have a chip on their shoulder. I don't believe you'll find any of the heavy hitters on this forum want to see someone fail just because they're new and they certainly don't find pleasure in seeing someone suffer or get fired. Part of the reason why I take my personal time to post is because I didn't have anyone to ask when I started and the internet was nothing but a hard coded dirt road.

In the office, I'm happy to help someone who wants to learn. I've taught 5 or 6 lunch'n'learns in the few months I've been at the new job and I have absolutely no problem showing someone how to do something. But if you come up to me and ask me for help with an arrogant attitude, you probably aren't going to get my help even if it's on how to just make coffee.

We all have to work together and business is tough enough without putting up with arrogance or bad attitude from anyone and that covers even more than just getting some help.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

"Change is inevitable. Change for the better is not." -- 04 August 2013
(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #608308
Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:00 AM


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When it comes to the Maintenance tasks for deleting old files, I found another annoying fact about them. I am not sure if anyone else has run into this, the process (or rather extended stored procedure) that deletes the files is case sensitive . I didn't check the collation on the Server at that time; I plan to do that when I get to work today LOL.

But on that server I had backups building up non stop, until I found out that the I had different case in the extension. i.e. "bak" vs. "BAK".

This form, Microsoft News Groups, Many many Bloggs (Blog hunter :p). When I start studying SQL Server; I was very disappointed at what I was doing and what was expected of me as SQL Server DBA. So I started studying on my on times, books, news groups, etc. Read peoples question try to come with an answer; if I was able to I did post the reply. But many times I have found other people reply and learn great deal from it.

As one of my teachers once told me in Kendo, take all the comments you get, you never know when one of them might be useful to you :).

Great article :).

Edit: I been watching and reading articles on this site for a while now; but recently decided to start posting and start asking questions. As with many I have had some not so good experiences with the forms. When I wrote my first article on SSC regarding Normalization; and got peoples response it was really a good feeling. Many people came with great reply and suggestion (which I am working on 2nd part of that article on). But recently I wrote on SCHEMABINDDING for my on blog (http://sqllearnings.blogspot.com/2008/11/schema-binding-views.html) for a friend who didn't know what it meant and again I am always surprised at the time people are willing to put in me. I like to thank all the people who have helped me here and everywhere else, on an endless journey to become a good DBA :D.


---

Mohit K. Gupta, MCITP: Database Administrator (2005), My Blog, Twitter: @SQLCAN.
Microsoft FTE - SQL Server PFE

* Some time its the search that counts, not the finding...
* I didn't think so, but if I was wrong, I was wrong. I'd rather do something, and make a mistake than be frightened and be doing nothing.


How to ask for help .. Read Best Practices here.
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