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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 11:01 AM


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Koen Verbeeck (2/7/2014)
The only problem with MSDN are some of its moderators.
An example that is causing a bit of a Twitter riot right now:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/sqlserver/en-US/127df876-5c50-411f-8bb0-ebdd00bce5b2/default-systemhealth-extended-event-not-caputring-all-events?forum=sqlkjmanageability

Let's hope that Jamie's comment has some effect - maybe a few more upvotes for it would help. As twitter and I are unconnected (I don't possess a long enough and suffciently well insulated bargepole) I haven't seen the riot and won't jon it, but upvoting Jamie's comment was easy.


Tom
Post #1539303
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 11:13 AM


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GilaMonster (2/7/2014)
jasona.work (2/7/2014)
Is it in any way, shape, or form, possible to have a functional SQL database, with its log file in an offline state. Could you somehow read / alter data in any way at all?


Change definitely not.
Without the log you may (emphasis may) be able to switch the DB to emergency mode and read the data. Single user, for emergencies.

Edit: That said, there is a short interval (30 sec iirc) between when the log file disappears and when SQL declares an IO failure.


I don't think that 30 seconds interval changes anything so far as altering data is concerned- nothing can be written to database pages on disc for which the corresponding log record has not been confirmed by the IO system as written to the log, and nothing can be so confirmed once the file has "disappeared"; I guess you may be able to read some stuff during that interval.

Of course you can always read the physical data from the data file on the disc and try interpreting it; without the log file this is going to be roughly equivalent (but a bit more technically difficult) to reading data with READ UNCOMMITTED isolation level, so possible not very useful.


Tom
Post #1539310
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 11:26 AM
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L' Eomot Inversé (2/7/2014)
Jeff Moden (2/7/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (2/6/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (2/6/2014)

However, this way they can give feedback that something worked. We are talking about how to best get other info from the "crowd" on posts.


As long as this doesn't turn SSC into a dictatorship like at StackOverflow, where some arrogant twats decide everything.
(I may be overreacting a bit :)

I like the MSDN model, where the OP or admins mark a post as answered, but the crowd can upvote a post or propose a reply as an answer.


I don't believe you're overreacting. I've had experiences there and on ASK SSC where they closed a really interesting thread or two that had some really bad answers because it didn't fit their model for not having discussions. That's why I simply avoid both most of the time now.

I like the MSDN model for the very reason you state.

Have to agree about ASK SSC - gave up on it some years ago. Never used Stack Overflow (although get quite a few hits on it with Google). Stongly inclined to agree with you and Koen. (No surprise there, I guess )

I checked ASK SSC out quite some time ago, but didn't really see the appeal. I tried answering a question once, but it wouldn't let me login. I haven't been back. Why would anyone want to use it anyway when we have SSC?



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Post #1539318
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 11:39 AM


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Ed Wagner (2/7/2014)
L' Eomot Inversé (2/7/2014)
Jeff Moden (2/7/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (2/6/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (2/6/2014)

However, this way they can give feedback that something worked. We are talking about how to best get other info from the "crowd" on posts.


As long as this doesn't turn SSC into a dictatorship like at StackOverflow, where some arrogant twats decide everything.
(I may be overreacting a bit :)

I like the MSDN model, where the OP or admins mark a post as answered, but the crowd can upvote a post or propose a reply as an answer.


I don't believe you're overreacting. I've had experiences there and on ASK SSC where they closed a really interesting thread or two that had some really bad answers because it didn't fit their model for not having discussions. That's why I simply avoid both most of the time now.

I like the MSDN model for the very reason you state.

Have to agree about ASK SSC - gave up on it some years ago. Never used Stack Overflow (although get quite a few hits on it with Google). Stongly inclined to agree with you and Koen. (No surprise there, I guess )

I checked ASK SSC out quite some time ago, but didn't really see the appeal. I tried answering a question once, but it wouldn't let me login. I haven't been back. Why would anyone want to use it anyway when we have SSC?


From what I hear, the developers are working on those login problems. I have said something about that on a few occasions.

I don't like stack. I think it is silly that you have to ask questions first and get those answered before you have enough rep to be able to answer questions.
MSDN might be ok from time to time but there are some serious attitudes over there. That has led me away from doing much over there.
SSC is just right for me.




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Post #1539330
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 11:56 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (2/7/2014)
I don't think that 30 seconds interval changes anything so far as altering data is concerned- nothing can be written to database pages on disc for which the corresponding log record has not been confirmed by the IO system as written to the log, and nothing can be so confirmed once the file has "disappeared"; I guess you may be able to read some stuff during that interval.


Modifications will run, the commit will hang (waiting on writelog) and the transaction will roll back as soon as SQL declares the IO failure.

Of course you can always read the physical data from the data file on the disc and try interpreting it; without the log file this is going to be roughly equivalent (but a bit more technically difficult) to reading data with READ UNCOMMITTED isolation level, so possible not very useful.


Unnecessary in most cases. Most of the time at worst an emergency mode repair will bring the DB back with some data loss.



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Post #1539336
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 12:14 PM


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SQLRNNR (2/7/2014)
Ed Wagner (2/7/2014)
L' Eomot Inversé (2/7/2014)
Jeff Moden (2/7/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (2/6/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (2/6/2014)

However, this way they can give feedback that something worked. We are talking about how to best get other info from the "crowd" on posts.


As long as this doesn't turn SSC into a dictatorship like at StackOverflow, where some arrogant twats decide everything.
(I may be overreacting a bit :)

I like the MSDN model, where the OP or admins mark a post as answered, but the crowd can upvote a post or propose a reply as an answer.


I don't believe you're overreacting. I've had experiences there and on ASK SSC where they closed a really interesting thread or two that had some really bad answers because it didn't fit their model for not having discussions. That's why I simply avoid both most of the time now.

I like the MSDN model for the very reason you state.

Have to agree about ASK SSC - gave up on it some years ago. Never used Stack Overflow (although get quite a few hits on it with Google). Stongly inclined to agree with you and Koen. (No surprise there, I guess )

I checked ASK SSC out quite some time ago, but didn't really see the appeal. I tried answering a question once, but it wouldn't let me login. I haven't been back. Why would anyone want to use it anyway when we have SSC?


From what I hear, the developers are working on those login problems. I have said something about that on a few occasions.

I don't like stack. I think it is silly that you have to ask questions first and get those answered before you have enough rep to be able to answer questions.
MSDN might be ok from time to time but there are some serious attitudes over there. That has led me away from doing much over there.
SSC is just right for me.


I don't think I have ever asked a question on Stack Overflow that wasn't closed within minutes as a bad question. That really turned me off from it. OTOH, I have asked dumb questions here and always got a meaningful response even when I was being silly about something. I do like the voting up far more than the "mark as answer" functionality of MSDN. Sometimes weird stuff is marked as the answer, and of course lots of people figure their problem out elsewhere and never update the 7 forum posts they've made about the issue.
Post #1539346
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 2:09 PM


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Post #1539395
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 2:11 PM


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Post #1539396
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 2:16 PM


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Post #1539398
Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 2:27 PM


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