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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:31 PM


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Lowell (5/23/2013)


I have a certain fondness for doing solutions in TSQL, or at least be centered around TSQL, regardless of whether it's the right tool for the job or not.

I just made a proof of concept CLR so that I could read a pop3 mailbox and return the results as an ITVF;
It works, and depending on my crappy mailserver's response times, i get , say the "latest" 25 emails in anywhere from 17 seconds to over two minutes.

If I was to slap out an article on it, do you think the articles focus should be on the tips and tricks of getting it to work(deep diving into the CLR code,external_access,trustworthy, why the CLR looks the way it does and requires fill functions/table definitions etc), or more on assuming they just install the assemblies, and how it could be used via TSQL?

I figure it might help the guys that like to cut boards with hammers like me, but I'm thinking the target audience is really people who want to run a script to install, and read their email box, and who cares what's under the covers.


Sounds like two articles to me. A deep dive article for those who want to know what is under the covers and a how to for those who just want to know how to use it.

I'd read both.



Lynn Pettis

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Post #1456219
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:34 PM


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uh.... where can I get one of those hammers? I use the "everything looks like a nail" quote often and that is an awesome visual. If there isn't a retail outlet, I'm so looking for a local shop that can engrave it for me.... and a few for my friends.... oohhh.... user group SWAG? I like it. Hope it's cheap.

Chad
Post #1456220
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:43 PM


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Lynn Pettis (5/22/2013)
Well, then you will be interested to hear that I haven't heard all the complaints about Windows 8 either. Unfortunately, none of your posts ever really enlightened me on the supposed problems. Plus, I tend to ignore the hype choosing instead to make my own decisions on whether or not a product is good or bad as I too feel that all we usually hear are the very vocal minority. Most people who like a product tend not to get vocal about it.

Actually I did spend considerable time reading comments on Windows 8. I didn't read all the anti-Windows 8 comments on every website that had any, of course, because I can't read Japanese or Chinese or Greek or in fact most other languages and because I couldn't fit 48 hours of reading in every day, but I read a lot. As I pointed out before, if I hadn't seen lots of complaints I wouldn't have wondered what all the fuss was about. I saw enough complaints that I bought this machine expecting to have 4 or 5 days of hell because with so many anti comments there really must be something wrong and not trivially fixable for little effort with Windows 8, and worrying about possibly having to buy and install Windows 7. I should have paid more attention to the fact that most of the anti comments amounted to "I don't like it, it's terrible" and hardly any gave any technical description of what people thought was wrong.

But as I said, from switching it on to being able to use it for most things without having to think took about 10 minutes. That was a very pleasant surprise.

I had some hassle with installing outlook on top of office H&S, which was an office problem not a windows 8 problem. I've been told that a similar problem existed on Windows 7.

I hate the fact that IE 10 rams the acrobat reader plugin down my throat, continuing to use it even if I disable the Adobe addins, because I hate reader and because I don't think MS should be forcing me to use that stuff when alternatives that I prefer are readily available; but that's an IE issue (and I can probably solve it with a little jiggery-pokery) not a Windows 8 issue. Neither do I like the absence of a browser UI in my preferred language.

Some keyboard shortcuts are different from what I used on XP; not an issue as I can change them if I want to (perhaps the ones I used on XP were ones that I had configured many years ago, I do recall changing some of the shortcuts a long time ago but I don't know whether that accounts for all the differences or not).

Of course I only use it for email, word and excel, web access, other internet access, pictures and picture editing, videos and video editing, music and music editing, Skype, book reading, SQL Server, programming in a couple of other languages, encryption and decryption, key and password generation and storage, cloud access, and backup store for my Kindle and my cameras - it's not a member of a domain, there are no heavy duty program development tools or project management tools, I don't as far as I know use client-side WPF, and it's not running a website; so there may be problems in areas that my usage doesn't cover.

One thing I learned in a Marketing class many years ago. If someone has a good experience with a product or company they tell 3 people. On the other hand, if you have had a bad experience with a product or company you tell 11 people. You are much more likely to hear about bad experiences than good.

I think the advent of social networking websites and other sites which allow vast quantities of comments has changed that. You still tend to see much more about bad things that about good, but the numbers are higher now, since one comment on a popular article at a site like el reg will be seen by far more than 3 or 11 people, and the ratio of bad comments to good comments seems to be usually a lot more than 4 to 1 - but not always: for example the number of pro-Apple fanatics who will swear the recent antenna design idiocy didn't happen is remarkable, and of course the number of anti-Apple fanatics who will swear anything coming out of Cupertino is pure rubbish is pretty amazing too, so in discussion of any Apple product the good and bad comments tend to be about equal both in number and in vacuity (not all the comments on either side are vacuous - just almost all of them), and of course there are other topics where the same sort of thing happens.

I reckoned people here would have seen all the anti-Windows 8 hype and it would be useful to some of them to hear that I didn't find the problems I anticipated. But I seem to have started a storm. I didn't intent to annoy Patrick with the dinosaur comment - when I posted that message I had no idea that Patrick existed (at least I don't recall seeing any of his posts either here or elsewhere) and no idea that he was one of those who had commented on the windows 8 issues, so it would have been rather difficult for me to have such an intention. I didn't even say anyone was a dinosaur - just that I suspected the cause of the hype was a bunch of old dinosaurs who were against all change. Nor that I suspected everyone who disliked Windows 8 was one, because like every OS ever shipped it will have its faults, and some people will have been sensibly pointing at those rather than indulging in hyping the idea that Windows 8 is an unusable disaster.


Tom
Post #1456240
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:44 PM


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Edit: Oops, quoting the wrong post...


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Post #1456241
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:56 PM


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Chad Crawford (5/23/2013)
uh.... where can I get one of those hammers? I use the "everything looks like a nail" quote often and that is an awesome visual. If there isn't a retail outlet, I'm so looking for a local shop that can engrave it for me.... and a few for my friends.... oohhh.... user group SWAG? I like it. Hope it's cheap.

Chad


I want one too! Would nicely go with the builder's hard hat on the edge of my cubicle "wall"


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In order for us to help you as efficiently as possible, please read this before posting (courtesy of Jeff Moden)
Post #1456243
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:12 PM


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Sean Lange (5/23/2013)
Lowell (5/23/2013)


I have a certain fondness for doing solutions in TSQL, or at least be centered around TSQL, regardless of whether it's the right tool for the job or not.

I just made a proof of concept CLR so that I could read a pop3 mailbox and return the results as an ITVF;
It works, and depending on my crappy mailserver's response times, i get , say the "latest" 25 emails in anywhere from 17 seconds to over two minutes.

If I was to slap out an article on it, do you think the articles focus should be on the tips and tricks of getting it to work(deep diving into the CLR code,external_access,trustworthy, why the CLR looks the way it does and requires fill functions/table definitions etc), or more on assuming they just install the assemblies, and how it could be used via TSQL?

I figure it might help the guys that like to cut boards with hammers like me, but I'm thinking the target audience is really people who want to run a script to install, and read their email box, and who cares what's under the covers.


I would love to read about the nitty gritty for this. Sounds like an article chock full of learning potential. Of course you would still need to have some details about how it could be used. Sounds like a great read to me!!!

Me too!


Tom
Post #1456249
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:12 PM
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L' Eomot Inversé (5/15/2013)

Anyway, I reckon Windows 8 is super. ... it all runs well and a lot faster than it would on similar hardware under XP

That must be a joke!
I'm sure it is.

I still have Windows XP Pro running on HP Vectra having Pentium II 350 (MHz, it's 0.35 GHz), 256 MB RAM (not sure about MHz here, must be 200 or so), IDE100 hard drive with 8GB dedicated for the system partition.

I use Office 2003, Outlook, iTunes, Calibre, Photoshop (used extensively), accounting stuff, audio and video editing software (older versions, you may guess), something else I use occasionally, and diffeent browsers, of course.

My biggest regret is upgrading Skype without preserving the old installation file. It stopped working then, as the hardware was not good enough for it anymore.
(BTW, it's happened soon after MS bought Skype.)

All works great, as I've learnt my lesson with Skype and I'm careful about upgrades since then.

Now, 10 times more cycles per second, 4 times more CPU cores, 40 times more of 10 times faster RAM, 20 times bigger and 8 times faster hard drive - does your Word start any faster than mine?

If you've managed to restore it, of course.

Can you even download an installation package for Windows 8 on such a hardware???
Post #1456281
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:58 PM
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L' Eomot Inversé (5/23/2013)

I had some hassle with installing outlook on top of office H&S, which was an office problem not a windows 8 problem. I've been told that a similar problem existed on Windows 7.

I'm sorry, what's the purpose of an Operational System?

Wasn't it "Easy and error free installation and execution of applications"?

OK, I can accept that badly written 3rd party applications may fail installation, and it might be not the OS problem.
But when you have troubles installing and configuring parts of the same software suit coming from the same vendor as the OS - are you sure it's not a problem with OS?


I hate the fact that IE 10 rams the acrobat reader plugin down my throat, continuing to use it even if I disable the Adobe addins, because I hate reader and because I don't think MS should be forcing me to use that stuff when alternatives that I prefer are readily available; but that's an IE issue (and I can probably solve it with a little jiggery-pokery) not a Windows 8 issue.

I'm sorry, isn't IE10 a part of Windows8?
Can you install Windows8 without IE10?

As well as problems with Maps (or Safari, if you know some) are problems with iOS6, the same way problems with IE10 are problems Windows8.

You still tend to see much more about bad things that about good

Isn't is a human nature?


I seem to have started a storm.

Just to be clear - I'm not participating in this storm.
Despite the best effort from Lynn to pull me in.

just that I suspected the cause of the hype was a bunch of old dinosaurs who were against all change.

I might be one of those dinosaurs.
I hate change for a sake of change.

Eventually I've learned the UI of the new Office, and I have no trouble finding the features I need anymore.
But I still don't see the point why I should have spent my time doing this, as I cannot find any advantage of the new layout vs. the old one.
When I have a choice - I prefer to run OpenOffice, as I find it more convenient.

And of course - I don't keep in memory all the numerous cases when I really appreciated changes in UI design.
See my comment above regarding human nature.
Post #1456289
Posted Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:16 PM


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Sergiy (5/23/2013)
L' Eomot Inversé (5/23/2013)

I had some hassle with installing outlook on top of office H&S, which was an office problem not a windows 8 problem. I've been told that a similar problem existed on Windows 7.

I'm sorry, what's the purpose of an Operational System?

Wasn't it "Easy and error free installation and execution of applications"?

OK, I can accept that badly written 3rd party applications may fail installation, and it might be not the OS problem.
But when you have troubles installing and configuring parts of the same software suit coming from the same vendor as the OS - are you sure it's not a problem with OS?


I hate the fact that IE 10 rams the acrobat reader plugin down my throat, continuing to use it even if I disable the Adobe addins, because I hate reader and because I don't think MS should be forcing me to use that stuff when alternatives that I prefer are readily available; but that's an IE issue (and I can probably solve it with a little jiggery-pokery) not a Windows 8 issue.

I'm sorry, isn't IE10 a part of Windows8?
Can you install Windows8 without IE10?

As well as problems with Maps (or Safari, if you know some) are problems with iOS6, the same way problems with IE10 are problems Windows8.

You still tend to see much more about bad things that about good

Isn't is a human nature?


I seem to have started a storm.

Just to be clear - I'm not participating in this storm.
Despite the best effort from Lynn to pull me in.

just that I suspected the cause of the hype was a bunch of old dinosaurs who were against all change.

I might be one of those dinosaurs.
I hate change for a sake of change.

Eventually I've learned the UI of the new Office, and I have no trouble finding the features I need anymore.
But I still don't see the point why I should have spent my time doing this, as I cannot find any advantage of the new layout vs. the old one.
When I have a choice - I prefer to run OpenOffice, as I find it more convenient.

And of course - I don't keep in memory all the numerous cases when I really appreciated changes in UI design.
See my comment above regarding human nature.


I'm not trying to pull you into anything, Sergiy. You are fully capable of making a decision to respond or not. To be sure, no where did I call on you to respond to anything regarding this discussion about Windows 8. You made that decision on your own, so please don't blame me for your getting involved.



Lynn Pettis

For better assistance in answering your questions, click here
For tips to get better help with Performance Problems, click here
For Running Totals and its variations, click here or when working with partitioned tables
For more about Tally Tables, click here
For more about Cross Tabs and Pivots, click here and here
Managing Transaction Logs

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Post #1456291
Posted Friday, May 24, 2013 4:56 AM


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#headdesk

Aren't Friday's supposed to be the easy day of the week?

Nothing worse than coming into the office (after a late night doing scheduled maintenance) and hearing "the vendor apps are offline."

And since the maintenance had nothing to do with the vendor apps, this is an entirely different sort of pain for which I have to start troubleshooting from scratch.

It's FRIDAY. Didn't the servers get that memo?

#headdesk #headdesk

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