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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:30 PM


Ten Centuries

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Evil Kraig F (5/2/2013)
L' Eomot Inversé (5/2/2013)
Evil Kraig F (5/2/2013)
SQLRNNR (5/2/2013)
This is sooo true

http://xkcd.com/1205/


LOL, I know. I've actually printed it out and hung it on my cube wall.
Take care not to forget that this is only useful if you are a committed optimist. Every working time is based on the assumption that you save the time specified on the left. So for a realist these figures are not useful - we need to see what is the probability that you will save X time per execution if you spend Y time on optimisation, not how much time we can spend to break even if X time per execution is saved (actually the latter is useful once you have the former, but without the former it is just a waste of space on your wall).


Well, true enough. However, its purpose on my wall is not as a reference, but to deter some overly optimistic folks about just how important their five minute monthly report is.


Assuming someone does nothing else but wait for results....
which the longer the runtime, the less likely that is all they are doing.
I always tended to find the manual manipulation they did over and over was the real nugget.
Like the report they said they could generate in five minutes, but it always took them a day or two to produce it for me to look at. Always amazed me how much was manually repeated month after month.
Post #1449036
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 12:31 AM


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Drove up to Nottingham for SQLBits this morning, checked in to hotel and then with nothing better to do went and registered. It's 7.30am and I've noticed that registration is from 9am.... whoops


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Post #1449060
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 1:20 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (5/1/2013)
ChrisM@Work suggested that I should revisit the complex many-to-many relationship thread, so I've done so. I found it quite difficult to avoid calling the OP an idiot, since several people have told him the obvious simple solution to his problem but he has refused to recognise it, claiming that we should assume it impossible to devise a particular abstraction although he himself is referring to exactly the required abstraction and even to one of its attributes in just about every post (Chris, that's why I didn't point out the lunacy of a reference whose target table was determined by a different column until now - I couldn't find a gentle enough form of words). I've done my best to explain why the right solution works and why he shouldn't object to it without calling him silly, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone can take a look here and if I've been too harsh post some sugar to alleviate the effect.


Tom - many thanks for stepping in. Your understanding of relational theory is light years ahead of mine (which is all practice and experience-based and hence quite limited) and you have published articles to add credibility to your arguments. You weren't at all harsh on the OP, don't worry about that. The OP's tricky but not as tricky as this one which Lynn's had to deal with.

Best wishes

ChrisM


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Post #1449065
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 1:25 AM


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Lynn Pettis (5/2/2013)
Okay, I have to ask without pointing to anything specific, do any of you think I have been harassing any of the OP's recently rather than helping them?


Absolutely not. I've just re-run through the UNION CTE's thread where you've posted with commendable restraint. The OP is frustrating beyond words.


“Write the query the simplest way. If through testing it becomes clear that the performance is inadequate, consider alternative query forms.” - Gail Shaw

For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
Exploring Recursive CTEs by Example Dwain Camps
Post #1449067
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 5:01 AM


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SQLRNNR (5/2/2013)
This is sooo true

http://xkcd.com/1205/
Yeah, I love when he does stuff like this. Saved this off so I can refer back to it occasionally.


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Post #1449128
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 5:14 AM


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Evil Kraig F (5/2/2013)
Well, true enough. However, its purpose on my wall is not as a reference, but to deter some overly optimistic folks about just how important their five minute monthly report is.

I've always taken teh attitude that if someone wants a monthly report from me they'll get one that tells how it is, and is of course copied to all relevant managers. You'd maybe not be surprised how often that has led to a decision that I am excused from providing the things.


Tom
Post #1449135
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 5:29 AM


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hahaha...accessory for your kilt next PASS, Grant?



---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question
How to post performance problems
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."


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Post #1449139
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 5:33 AM


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ChrisM@Work (5/3/2013)
Lynn Pettis (5/2/2013)
Okay, I have to ask without pointing to anything specific, do any of you think I have been harassing any of the OP's recently rather than helping them?


Absolutely not. I've just re-run through the UNION CTE's thread where you've posted with commendable restraint. The OP is frustrating beyond words.

Yes, having looked through that thread I agree with Chris. It's kind of irritating when someone thinks that what they want is an explanation of the right way to use a lumphammer to undo a shirt button, and you were definitely not harassing. The OP's final decision to do it without the lumphammer came as quite a surprise after some of his earlier posts.


Tom
Post #1449142
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 6:34 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (5/3/2013)
ChrisM@Work (5/3/2013)
Lynn Pettis (5/2/2013)
Okay, I have to ask without pointing to anything specific, do any of you think I have been harassing any of the OP's recently rather than helping them?


Absolutely not. I've just re-run through the UNION CTE's thread where you've posted with commendable restraint. The OP is frustrating beyond words.

Yes, having looked through that thread I agree with Chris. It's kind of irritating when someone thinks that what they want is an explanation of the right way to use a lumphammer to undo a shirt button, and you were definitely not harassing. The OP's final decision to do it without the lumphammer came as quite a surprise after some of his earlier posts.


Thank you both. He kindly told me to not answer any of his questions on this forum and when I refused he said he would ask the moderator to talk me, and quote: "I really prefer not to get you help. This is about help, not harassment."

Another quote from another PM: "You are not attempting to sincerely help -- and I have experienced this for 1+ years."

Another quote from another PM: "I do not find you helpful at all and the post goes off on tangents.
Others are helpful! This is a great forum!!!"

On the tangents part, how many of us have gone of on tangents before.... (raises hand).

Again, thank you for the feedback as I did begin to question if I had some how crossed some line without meaning to do it. I couldn't see anything in the posts, but I could have been to close to the trees to see the forest.



Lynn Pettis

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Post #1449165
Posted Friday, May 3, 2013 8:09 AM


Ten Centuries

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L' Eomot Inversé (5/2/2013)
Evil Kraig F (5/2/2013)
SQLRNNR (5/2/2013)
This is sooo true

http://xkcd.com/1205/


LOL, I know. I've actually printed it out and hung it on my cube wall.
Take care not to forget that this is only useful if you are a committed optimist. Every working time is based on the assumption that you save the time specified on the left. So for a realist these figures are not useful - we need to see what is the probability that you will save X time per execution if you spend Y time on optimisation, not how much time we can spend to break even if X time per execution is saved (actually the latter is useful once you have the former, but without the former it is just a waste of space on your wall).


It's true that we can't know a priori how much time per execution an optimization will save, but I don't think you have to be a "committed optimist" to make good use of this chart. You only need to have reasonable confidence in your estimates of the savings and the effort required to achieve the savings to judge whether to proceed with the optimization work. I think you are saying about the same thing when you suggest that we must determine the probability that Y time spent optimizing will yield X savings per execution.

We have to make business decisions with imperfect information sometimes, after all.


Jason Wolfkill
Blog: SQLSouth
Twitter: @SQLSouth
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