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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 6:28 AM


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jasona.work (5/1/2013)
Brandie Tarvin (5/1/2013)
SQLRNNR (4/30/2013)

ROBODBA


Apparently I lack the internet savvy.

HUH?


RoboCop == ROBODBA


"normalize your tables.
Or there will be trouble"


And here I was trying to parse an acronym.


Brandie Tarvin, MCITP Database Administrator

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Post #1448389
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 7:34 AM
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Jeff Moden (4/30/2013)
L' Eomot Inversé (4/30/2013)

Anyway, I'm at a loss to think of a good role to assign to DBAs in the worlds of science fiction and fantasy. Of course that is possibly because I haven't read sufficient Lovecraft.


Heh... wouldn't it be fun to write a story about the DBAs who first managed the Matrix or SkyNet and how, like many other jobs, were ultimately replaced by machines and the code that drives them? Maybe even have the intelligence and skill of a DBA transferred to a machine (Robocop style).


I think the result might be closer to Marvin the Paranoid Android (from the Hitchhiker's Guide).
Post #1448415
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 11:13 AM


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ChrisM@Work suggested that I should revisit the complex many-to-many relationship thread, so I've done so. I found it quite difficult to avoid calling the OP an idiot, since several people have told him the obvious simple solution to his problem but he has refused to recognise it, claiming that we should assume it impossible to devise a particular abstraction although he himself is referring to exactly the required abstraction and even to one of its attributes in just about every post (Chris, that's why I didn't point out the lunacy of a reference whose target table was determined by a different column until now - I couldn't find a gentle enough form of words). I've done my best to explain why the right solution works and why he shouldn't object to it without calling him silly, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone can take a look here and if I've been too harsh post some sugar to alleviate the effect.

Tom
Post #1448532
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 11:26 AM


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Ah, the myth of de-identified data...http://www.fiercehealthit.com/story/anonymous-research-patients-easily-re-identified-harvard-researchers-find/2013-04-29

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"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
Post #1448539
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 11:28 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (5/1/2013)
ChrisM@Work suggested that I should revisit the complex many-to-many relationship thread, so I've done so. I found it quite difficult to avoid calling the OP an idiot, since several people have told him the obvious simple solution to his problem but he has refused to recognise it, claiming that we should assume it impossible to devise a particular abstraction although he himself is referring to exactly the required abstraction and even to one of its attributes in just about every post (Chris, that's why I didn't point out the lunacy of a reference whose target table was determined by a different column until now - I couldn't find a gentle enough form of words). I've done my best to explain why the right solution works and why he shouldn't object to it without calling him silly, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone can take a look here and if I've been too harsh post some sugar to alleviate the effect.
I thought you showed remarkable restraint, personally.


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How best to post your question
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Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
Post #1448541
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 11:43 AM


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I saw an article on that study a few weeks ago. Didn't think to post about, but I find it very telling.


Brandie Tarvin, MCITP Database Administrator

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Post #1448548
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:30 PM


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I just started reading through the topic, it almost sounds like two things to me:
1. A moving target. Every time a reasonable answer is proposed, "that won't work for the purposes of this application..."
2. He's trying to take the phone numbers to a ridiculously high level of normalization that isn't needed for this problem.

Jason
Post #1448561
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:05 PM


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jasona.work (5/1/2013)
I just started reading through the topic, it almost sounds like two things to me:
1. A moving target. Every time a reasonable answer is proposed, "that won't work for the purposes of this application..."
2. He's trying to take the phone numbers to a ridiculously high level of normalization that isn't needed for this problem.

Jason

About the moving target I agree completely.

But if you think that what he is trying to do involves a ridiculously hight level of normalization you have a very different view of normalization from anything I've ever come across before. the function of normalisation is to enable the schema to enforce business rules using its structure and its keys. He is actively preventing that, I believe, and trying to build a schema in which rules that would normally be enforced by structure and keys can only be enforced by explicit code (in triggers, probably). That's a ridiculously high lever of denormalisation!


Tom
Post #1448582
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:06 PM


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CREATE TABLE TelephoneDigits (
DigitID INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
Digit CHAR(1) NOT NULL UNIQUE -- todo. Check constraint to limit to 0..9, (, ) and +
);

CREATE TABLE TelephoneNumberDigits (
TelephoneNumberDigits INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
PhoneNumberID, -- todo foreign key
DigitID INT, -- todo foreign key
Position INT
);

CREATE TABLE TelephoneNumbers (
TelephoneNumber ID INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
TelephoneNumberTypeID INT, -- todo foreign key
ActiveStatusID INT, --todo foreign key
DefaultStatusID INT -- todo foreign key
);

--..... 3 more tables at least

Silly enough?



Gail Shaw
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Post #1448583
Posted Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:07 PM


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GilaMonster (5/1/2013)
CREATE TABLE TelephoneDigits (
DigitID INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
Digit CHAR(1) NOT NULL UNIQUE -- todo. Check constraint to limit to 0..9, (, ) and +
);

CREATE TABLE TelephoneNumberDigits (
TelephoneNumberDigits INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
PhoneNumberID, -- todo foreign key
DigitID INT, -- todo foreign key
Position INT
);

CREATE TABLE TelephoneNumbers (
TelephoneNumber ID INT IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,
TelephoneNumberTypeID INT, -- todo foreign key
ActiveStatusID INT, --todo foreign key
DefaultStatusID INT -- todo foreign key
);

--..... 3 more tables at least

Silly enough?

Almost. To reach the depths achieved in the weird join thread you need to split the TelephoneDigits table into two tables, OddTelephoneDigits and EvenTelephoneDigits with check constraints restricting each to its 6 digits. Then the TelephoneNumberDigits table has to have a DigitType field indicating whether the digit is odd or even, and a single field which contains an ID of a row in either the Odddigit table or the Evendigit table (to ensures you can't use a foreign key to ensure referential integrity), and add a big comment stating that it is clearly impossible to invent an abstraction from odd digits and even digits and have a single table representing both. With that small modification you would achieve the required standard of silliness.


Tom
Post #1448641
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