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Are the posted questions getting worse? Expand / Collapse
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Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:16 AM


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rodjkidd (4/18/2013)
Just to add my congratulations to Wayne and Jason on the MCM's.

Rodders...


Thanks!


Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!
Links: For better assistance in answering your questions, How to ask a question, Performance Problems, Common date/time routines,
CROSS-TABS and PIVOT tables Part 1 & Part 2, Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2, Splitting Delimited Strings
Post #1443935
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:17 AM


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Brandie Tarvin (4/18/2013)
Me too. Congrats, congrats. That's awesome, guys.

Thank you Brandie


Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!
Links: For better assistance in answering your questions, How to ask a question, Performance Problems, Common date/time routines,
CROSS-TABS and PIVOT tables Part 1 & Part 2, Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2, Splitting Delimited Strings
Post #1443937
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:18 AM


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Grant Fritchey (4/18/2013)
Late to the game, but well done Jason & Wayne.


Thanks Grant.
BTW... are you the next MCM from the SSC group?


Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!
Links: For better assistance in answering your questions, How to ask a question, Performance Problems, Common date/time routines,
CROSS-TABS and PIVOT tables Part 1 & Part 2, Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2, Splitting Delimited Strings
Post #1443940
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:37 AM


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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)
dbursey (4/18/2013)
From the other side of the fence - I've asked questions here and got ripped a new one because I didn't provide actual examples - sometimes it's hard to figure out how to provide a meaningful example. .........
......
......
.....
It doesn't happen every time - I've certainly gotten help here, too, for which I am grateful - but it happens frequently enough (and interestingly enough, that seems to come in waves, too) to make me always think twice before I ask a question.
......
......

I can certainly identify with what you're saying! However, providing concrete examples is a good skill for honing in on solutions, ........
.......
.......
Also, keep in mind, many of the "highly rated" posters actually get points for posting rote replies like "see this post for instructions on how to submit your question," so the incentive system here is particularily slanted toward providing "copy paste" answers even without studying the question the answer is posted to in any reasonable detail. Just my 2 cents!

I can certainly sympathasize with Donna here, but I simply do not believe that the motivation suggested in Patrick's last paragraph is a significant factor for any highly rated poster. Yes, I have been surprised a few times by people asking for DDL, sample data, and so on where it's been clear to me what the problem was and I've been able to point the questioner in the right direction without demanding any of that; but some people are more systematic than I am, perhaps used to a less wild and wooly organisational ethos than some of what I've experienced, perhaps more used to an environment where everything is done top down and nothing bottom up, and thus find it very difficult to look at some messy code without knowing what the schema behind it is. I often wish people would have a quick read through and point out any obvious problems or suggest possible approaches before asking for DML and so on - because sometimes doing that turns out to be all that is needed, especially in cases like some that Donna mentions where what is needed is guidance on best practise rather than help in coding detail, and also because I have sometimes felt embarrassed (and had a nasty sinking feeling that surely I have got it completely wrong) at posting a auggested solution without having the additional information requested by someone I know (from there contributions on this site and maybe elsewhere too) is much more able in T-SQL matters than I am.
What concerns me most though is one thing that Donna said: that this has made he think twice before posting a request for help. That surely isn't what any of us want to happen?


Tom
Post #1443951
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:03 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (4/18/2013)

What concerns me most though is one thing that Donna said: that this has made he think twice before posting a request for help. That surely isn't what any of us want to happen?


Absolutely Tom. None of us want people to feel intimidated or nervous to ask a question. To that end it is up to the rest of us to do our best to not berate people. I think most of us do a pretty good job of that, there are of course exceptions.


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Post #1443975
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:05 AM
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Sean Lange (4/18/2013)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)

Also, keep in mind, many of the "highly rated" posters actually get points for posting rote replies like "see this post for instructions on how to submit your question," so the incentive system here is particularily slanted toward providing "copy paste" answers even without studying the question the answer is posted to in any reasonable detail. Just my 2 cents!


If so many of the posters weren't so consistent about not providing enough details to answer a question I would have probably half as many points as I do...maybe less. There are dozens of posts every single day where somebody wants us to provide a detailed query and we don't have ddl or even all the business rules. The reason we ask for these things is because we don't like writing multiple answers for the same problem because not enough information was provided initially.

While it is true that often we could build the sample data from the disaster that was posted we are volunteers. If Red Gate decided they wanted to pay me for parsing messily posted data into something consumable I would be more willing to do it. Since they don't, I don't too often spend my time assembling that into something usable.

Instead of just viewing the issue and ignoring it I try to tell the OP what they can do to get the help they are seeking. How many threads do we see with 20 or 30 views and zero responses? Many people don't bother to take the time to help these people understand what they can do to help themselves. Then the people who do take that time get ridiculed as being points hoarders. I guess I chose not to be anonymous and ignore these people. Instead I try to help these people get pointed in the right direction.


Its not a big thing, but I've come to love the point system, if I'm accumulating too many posts, its a good indication that I'm posting too much and should readjust my priorities. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to ridicule anyone over their big point totals, because if this is part of your priorities (and even personal branding), then it fits in with what you do and there's no harm in it. But I've come to learn that for certain folks, big investment into forums like this are simply not a healthy thing for them. You can naysay it as its no big thing, but people really can and do get in trouble with simple typing, and if you don't have the personality to keep it under control, getting invested in any sort of history with a forum that you feel needs protected, well I'm just going to say that not everything turns out perfectly in life.
Post #1443977
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:56 AM


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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)
Sean Lange (4/18/2013)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)

Also, keep in mind, many of the "highly rated" posters actually get points for posting rote replies like "see this post for instructions on how to submit your question," so the incentive system here is particularily slanted toward providing "copy paste" answers even without studying the question the answer is posted to in any reasonable detail. Just my 2 cents!


If so many of the posters weren't so consistent about not providing enough details to answer a question I would have probably half as many points as I do...maybe less. There are dozens of posts every single day where somebody wants us to provide a detailed query and we don't have ddl or even all the business rules. The reason we ask for these things is because we don't like writing multiple answers for the same problem because not enough information was provided initially.

While it is true that often we could build the sample data from the disaster that was posted we are volunteers. If Red Gate decided they wanted to pay me for parsing messily posted data into something consumable I would be more willing to do it. Since they don't, I don't too often spend my time assembling that into something usable.

Instead of just viewing the issue and ignoring it I try to tell the OP what they can do to get the help they are seeking. How many threads do we see with 20 or 30 views and zero responses? Many people don't bother to take the time to help these people understand what they can do to help themselves. Then the people who do take that time get ridiculed as being points hoarders. I guess I chose not to be anonymous and ignore these people. Instead I try to help these people get pointed in the right direction.


Its not a big thing, but I've come to love the point system, if I'm accumulating too many posts, its a good indication that I'm posting too much and should readjust my priorities. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to ridicule anyone over their big point totals, because if this is part of your priorities (and even personal branding), then it fits in with what you do and there's no harm in it. But I've come to learn that for certain folks, big investment into forums like this are simply not a healthy thing for them. You can naysay it as its no big thing, but people really can and do get in trouble with simple typing, and if you don't have the personality to keep it under control, getting invested in any sort of history with a forum that you feel needs protected, well I'm just going to say that not everything turns out perfectly in life.


It certainly is not part of my personal branding or some way for me to feel good about myself. Honestly I don't care one way or the other about points. It means nothing. I do however enjoy helping others with issues they run into with SQL. Over the last several years of being one of those people that help others I have grown my own talent well beyond what it probably would have been otherwise. I am sure there are people out there who get themselves into trouble with forums. You make it sound like heroin or something. Maybe we need a 12 step SSC program to help those who can't admit that they have a problem.


_______________________________________________________________

Need help? Help us help you.

Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.

Need to split a string? Try Jeff Moden's splitter.

Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1)
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2)
Post #1444013
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:23 AM
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Sean Lange (4/18/2013)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)
Sean Lange (4/18/2013)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)

Also, keep in mind, many of the "highly rated" posters actually get points for posting rote replies like "see this post for instructions on how to submit your question," so the incentive system here is particularily slanted toward providing "copy paste" answers even without studying the question the answer is posted to in any reasonable detail. Just my 2 cents!


If so many of the posters weren't so consistent about not providing enough details to answer a question I would have probably half as many points as I do...maybe less. There are dozens of posts every single day where somebody wants us to provide a detailed query and we don't have ddl or even all the business rules. The reason we ask for these things is because we don't like writing multiple answers for the same problem because not enough information was provided initially.

While it is true that often we could build the sample data from the disaster that was posted we are volunteers. If Red Gate decided they wanted to pay me for parsing messily posted data into something consumable I would be more willing to do it. Since they don't, I don't too often spend my time assembling that into something usable.

Instead of just viewing the issue and ignoring it I try to tell the OP what they can do to get the help they are seeking. How many threads do we see with 20 or 30 views and zero responses? Many people don't bother to take the time to help these people understand what they can do to help themselves. Then the people who do take that time get ridiculed as being points hoarders. I guess I chose not to be anonymous and ignore these people. Instead I try to help these people get pointed in the right direction.


Its not a big thing, but I've come to love the point system, if I'm accumulating too many posts, its a good indication that I'm posting too much and should readjust my priorities. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to ridicule anyone over their big point totals, because if this is part of your priorities (and even personal branding), then it fits in with what you do and there's no harm in it. But I've come to learn that for certain folks, big investment into forums like this are simply not a healthy thing for them. You can naysay it as its no big thing, but people really can and do get in trouble with simple typing, and if you don't have the personality to keep it under control, getting invested in any sort of history with a forum that you feel needs protected, well I'm just going to say that not everything turns out perfectly in life.


It certainly is not part of my personal branding or some way for me to feel good about myself. Honestly I don't care one way or the other about points. It means nothing. I do however enjoy helping others with issues they run into with SQL. Over the last several years of being one of those people that help others I have grown my own talent well beyond what it probably would have been otherwise. I am sure there are people out there who get themselves into trouble with forums. You make it sound like heroin or something. Maybe we need a 12 step SSC program to help those who can't admit that they have a problem.

Time and again I've read in the news folks absolutely ruin their own lives over dumb forum stuff even when posting under what they perceive as an anonymous handle. But yeah, I hear you about that 12 step program!
Post #1444039
Posted Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:53 PM


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patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)
Time and again I've read in the news folks absolutely ruin their own lives over dumb forum stuff even when posting under what they perceive as an anonymous handle. But yeah, I hear you about that 12 step program!


LOL That may be exactly why I don't have a "handle". My actual name in the real world is the same as it is on here. Maybe that is my own version of personal branding but I don't advertise that I am a frequent poster on here and it certainly isn't on my resume or anything like that. If I am at an interview and the person recognizes my name I will admit to it but otherwise for me it is just something I enjoy.



_______________________________________________________________

Need help? Help us help you.

Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.

Need to split a string? Try Jeff Moden's splitter.

Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1)
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2)
Post #1444104
Posted Friday, April 19, 2013 2:52 AM


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Sean Lange (4/18/2013)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (4/18/2013)
Time and again I've read in the news folks absolutely ruin their own lives over dumb forum stuff even when posting under what they perceive as an anonymous handle. But yeah, I hear you about that 12 step program!


LOL That may be exactly why I don't have a "handle". ...


If you had a handle, you would be a teapot.


“Write the query the simplest way. If through testing it becomes clear that the performance is inadequate, consider alternative query forms.” - Gail Shaw

For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
Exploring Recursive CTEs by Example Dwain Camps
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