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BYOC Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:32 AM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item BYOC






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Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #603247
Posted Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:25 PM


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Yet, the same company will break your horns for sending private emails from work or using the company telephone to make personal calls to an old flame in Australia.

Nah... mixing personal stuff with business stuff is one of those things I consider to be unethical and, well... stupid. I don't even check my personal email when I'm at work... it's not only a distraction that I don't need, but it's unethical because the company isn't paying me for that. I've seen lots of folks get the boot for a lot less and now companies like Citrix think it's a good idea. I think it's gonna bite them back.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

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Post #603295
Posted Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:03 AM


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I hear you, but how do you balance that with work calling you at home?

I think we have to get past the "hours worked" in IT at least, and perhaps in many other areas, and get to the "work done" area. It doesn't matter if you send personal emails at work or take an our to go run an errand, if you get the work done.







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

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Post #603341
Posted Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:18 AM


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Maybe I'm an old stick in the mud, but to me, it does matter.

For example, a lot of folks just flat refuse to work over 40 hours... can't say I blame them at all. Some of these same people are doing christmas shopping and similar recreation activities over the internet on company time and they're salaried... that's a form of stealing in my book. Worse yet, the projects they're working on are sometimes behind. Do your christmas shopping and personal emails at home, not at work. If you're fortunate enough to get some downtime at work, use it for something to further your career at the company you're working for... learn something new either about the systems already in place or something having to do with your skill set.

You don't want work to interfere with your personal life... don't let your personal life interfere with your work. Sure, sure... your kid gets hurt at school and you have to take off right NOW! That's not the type of interference I'm talking about... I'm talking about things like christmas shopping on company time and personal emails and even answering forum questions... it's just wrong and it's why a lot of employers think of employees as a "profit detractor". Particulary in IT, we need to change that perception. It's about half the reason why some employers think that overseas outsourcing is a viable alternative.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #603342
Posted Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:51 AM


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I'd argue it's ignorance on the part of managers.

They're looking at time = productivity, and then they're the same ones that complain that people don't get enough done when they're measuring time first. Not results

There will always be people at your job that don't do a great job. They're less productive, they're less efficient, but you work with that. You understand that I will get xx amount of work out of this person each week, and you hold them to that standard. It might not be the "Jeff" level of work, but it's a level of work for Andy. If Andy doesn't meet the Andy level of work, he might need to work more, or be let go.

I don't think having computers purchased for you changes this. So many people put their personal stuff on that computer because they just don't want to, or have time to switch. It's not efficient. Especially not in today's world. I'd rather see them get the computer, be happy with it, and a VM with their work stuff on it.







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Post #603348
Posted Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 AM


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Personally, I disagree with encouraging people to feel to proprietorial about their work tools. The problem is one of differing (and often conflicting) priorities. As you mentioned in the article, Steve, an individual's attitude to security is what makes them feel personally safe, whilst the company has to insist on what's necessary to safeguard the whole organisation. As soon as you give a person the right to use their own equipment for work purposes, you also extend to them a valid reason for seeing security, privacy and reliability as points for discussion and debate, and that's plain anarchy.

Far better, in my opinion, to make sure people have well specified tools to do their job, and that there is a corporate policy which defines and allows "reasonable personal use" of that corporate asset. People then know exactly where they stand, and if they wish to do something that falls outside the policy, that's the point they can fall back on their own personal kit in their own personal time.

If the company wants to extend a perk, I see no reason why not to let employees buy their personal computing equipment through the company, thereby using the corporate buying power. But using personal kit for work purposes? Nah; bad idea, I reckon.


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Post #603512
Posted Monday, November 17, 2008 3:27 AM
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A few years ago in the UK, the Government decided to give a tax break to companies who allowed users to buy their own machines.

The scheme went like this:
The company would arrange a deal with a supplier, the company would buy the machine and the user would pay the cost back out of pre-tax pay; i.e., you didn't pay tax on the cash used to buy the computer.

Also, the company claimed the Value Added tax (17.5%) back and did not pass that on to the user.

The scheme, called the Home Computer Initiative, was designed to allow people who would not normally, or could not affrod to own a computer to 'get connected'.

I bought my Mac on this scheme in 2005. I got a 2.3Ghz, Dual G5 with 2.5Gb RAM and two 250Gb SATA drives for under £2000.

Of course, what happened was that people like me, working in IT got cheap machines, and the people who wouldn't normally get a computer, still didn't bother.

The scheme was halted after two years.

What I see from this is that people who want a computer at home will get one, but there are people who don't want one and won't have one even if the company pays for it, and those people will still download virus-laden smilies and malware-ridden screensavers on their office boxes.

We don't lock our computers down much here where I work, beyond not making users local admins. That stops a lot of the nonsense by itself.

We don't mind too much if people browse the web during the work day, as long as the work gets done - it's like the sweet factory - allow the workers to eat all the sweets they want and pretty soon they'll stop eating anything but the minimum - We find that people don't browse all day, but do it at breaks and lunch time and sometimes even staying a bit later to look stuff up, or book theatre tickets or even do some online shopping.
Of course we do have a net filter in place to block objectionable content and it's very well publicised in-house that such content if found on a users machine is a serious diciplinary matter. Hasn't happened yet.



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Post #603532
Posted Monday, November 17, 2008 5:32 AM


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I think it depends on the situation.... it works better in situations where companies are smaller I think... one size doesn't fit all.

I've worked in both situations - as a contractor where I've used my own equipment, in all cases I've been extremely careful about client data, and have used encryption....

I've also worked for companies (banks) where no data can leave the site, internet access is extremely limited, machines are locked down etc. I think it's more situational depending on the company, data and employees.

Mark
Post #603582
Posted Monday, November 17, 2008 6:28 AM
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You're absolutely right, of course.

I should have said we're a medium-sized multi-national, head office in London, with offices in Europe, US, Latin America and the UAE.

We depend a lot on all the offices being connected all the time so we invest heavily in VPNs and so on.

For all that, our IT staff is only 6 people.

I can see that the situation will be very different in a larger environment but the point remains that people who want a computer will get one whether the company pays for it or not and those you see no need, won't.

Trying to give someone a computer they don't want is a waste of money.


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Post #603618
Posted Monday, November 17, 2008 6:29 AM
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Jeff,

I have to agree with you, at least partially. If I catch you christmas shopping, gambling, downloading 30gb onto your iPod, I'm gonna can you. But answering forum posts? Some of us use forums like this one as research tools to do our jobs. If others wait until the weekend to reply and I have a problem now, I'm going to look for other sources of information.

Regarding personal emails, there are circumstances and there are circumstances. Personal emails are less distracting to others than personal phone calls. Does that mean I should be handling personal emails all day? Absolutely not. On the other hand, I have a loved one who is disabled. The primary contact with the outside world is the internet, and email with me. I will choose to respond to those emails because they can amount to bigger issues than christmas shopping.

Beyond that, I have been on call, 2 weeks out of 4, since 1994. I have yet to be compensated for any 3 am calls I took, or for the broadband access I pay for on the laptop I paid for so that I can connect from home to provide faster service...rather that getting dressed and driving in...I can frequently be on the way to a solution before I can physically arrive. So I have to come down with the camp that measures what you accomplish, not what happens in the 40 hours that are visible. Otherwise I believe I am due a great deal of back pay for all those years on call. On call is literally not in my job description, nor any of the other members of my group. It is simply an expectation. Granted, in an at-will state, it amounts to the same thing, but if I were a contractor, every minute past 40 hours is billable at a higher rate.


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