January 17, 2008 at 7:21 am
I work in a large shop and I'm currently doing client work. Building universal xp image for all hardware, group policy, etc. but I want to move to the server side, more specifically SQL administration. We have 7 guys in our SQL group currently and I've been trying to buddy up with those guys, but they're a pretty tight knit group.
So basically I'm looking for some advice and answers.
1. I'm currently studying to get my MS certs, I figure this can help since I don't have any true hands on experience with sql admin. stuff. What else could I do to help my cause?
2. I'd like to work on some projects that I could show potential employers if I were to get a interview. Could somebody give me some ideas on what would be good resume fodder? (web apps, etc....)
That's it in a nutshell.
Thanks
January 17, 2008 at 12:30 pm
The way I did it early in my career was answer as many questions for my peers as possible. Then I'd take the question & answer to the guys I was trying to impress to verify I had it right. After a while they got sick of me doing their work without being on their team and I got transfered. Probably won't work every where or all the time, but it worked for me.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
January 17, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Get a copy of SQL Dev Edition, or at least a copy of SQL Express, and start playing with it at home. Build some databases for your own use.
I have a "ProofOfConcept" database on my computer at home, where I run scripts that I find on web pages like this one, to find out what they do, why they do it, etc.
Ask questions here. Ask questions of the SQL team at work. "Hey, guys, I'm building a database on my computer at home, and I ran into a problem ...." allows them to show off their expertise, and gives you a common interest with them. Both will build affinity (friendliness), so long as you don't overdo it. Ask their opinion when you run into a controversial subject on this web page. (Ask about identity columns and mention the name "Joe Celko". Then ask about "GUIDs". Look it up after the argument has resulted in at least two lynchings.)
But, most importantly, do get access to an SQL server of some sort, even if it's Express on your home computer, and do stuff with it. Try running and restoring a backup. Try building a database of something you're interested in. Test out concepts you run into on this page. Find more pages to read. Do the tutorials on MSDN.
Then you'll know what you're getting into (at least more than you might know now).
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 17, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Just another 2 cents, although SQL Server 2005 Express Edition is free, spending the extra $50.00 for SQL Server 2005 Developers Edition is (in my opinion) well worth while. The Developers Edition has all the power and features of the Enterprise Edition.
😎
January 17, 2008 at 2:06 pm
When you said the DBA group was a tight knit group, did they not welcome you to ask question? I had this problem before, at my old company a lot of groups were very closed (Operation, ERP, Reporting...) and if you asked them a question, they thought you were after their job. Every time I tried to say 'Hi' and started a conversion, in 5 seconds, they would pretend they were very busy and I had to leave. I was still remained as a stranger after I worked at that company for a year.
January 17, 2008 at 2:19 pm
My ProofOfConcept database rarely has any consistency from day to day. Usually, I throw together whatever tables I need in order to have just enough to test the exact thing I'm working on.
For example, I created table:
dbo.Hierarchy(ID int identity primary key, ParentID int references dbo.hierarchy(id1))
go
create index IDX_Hiearchy_ on dbo.hierarchy(parentid)
I then populated it with a few thousand rows of data, including some hierarchies with up to 101 levels and multiple branches.
Then I created four different procs and functions for resolving the hierarchy, including two cursors, a while loop, and a CTE.
Then I created a separate many-to-many hierarchy, to parallel corporate customers. Each company can have any number of agents, each agent can belong to any number of companies, each agent can have any number of orders. Online, the personnel assigned to a company can see the orders placed by agents who are affiliated with them, but only if the order is also associated with them, and cannot see the orders placed by agents who aren't affiliated with them or orders placed through other companies, even if the agent is also associated with them. This reflects an actual business need for two companies I've built databases for.
So I threw test tables into ProofOfConcept, with nothing more than single-column primary keys and FKs, a few indexes where the tables had more than one column, and then built a variety of procs to test performance and execution plans using various CTEs, loops, complex joins, table variables, temp tables, etc. I load up the tables and run them in dozens of different ways.
The whole point is to test completely in isolation from anything other than the exact problem I'm currently tackling. I can keep a dozen copies of a proc, put in all kinds of comments about testing, run profiles in complete isolation from anything other than the actual test at hand, etc. That's also why I run it on an isolated, low-end computer, so the results aren't polluted. It's just scientific method (controls and variables) applied to SQL.
So, yeah, I could provide you with a create script (current one is attached, if you want it), but I don't know that it'll do you much good as it currently exists.
I don't know that I've read about using this exact concept, but I'm pretty sure I didn't invent it myself and that plenty of other DBAs have the same (or similar enough) systems they use for isolated testing.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 17, 2008 at 2:41 pm
@GSquared - Wow, that's quite the setup. Sorry for assuming you were using AdventureWorks! Your approach is quite intriguing and seems comprehensive, even if your attached script is not, yet. I'll be chewing on that code for a while.
I'll see if I can design and create my own PoC db, both as a test of my skills and as a sandbox for learning other concepts.
You've really pushed me today. Thanks!
Is it possible there is a repository of other db's of this nature? Sounds like a cool project to start ....
January 17, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Answering questions somewhere like here is good practice as well. Find questions, look up answers, try to solve the issue, etc.
January 17, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (1/17/2008)
Answering questions somewhere like here is good practice as well. Find questions, look up answers, try to solve the issue, etc.
Actually, that's probably an even better idea than it might seem at first glance.
If I were looking to hire a DBA, and a candidate had "active on SQL Server Central and ... (list of other SQL web pages) ...", and could prove they had a certain screen name and certain level of activity, that would have the potential of being a major plus in the hiring process.
I'd be able to look up the discussions the person had been involved in, and get a feel for personality, skills, etc., outside of the horribly artificial environment of an interview or CV/resume. Are the posts professional, personable, helpful, etc. Does he always recommend cursors on global temp tables with clustered indexes on nvarchar fields in his solutions to questions asked here, or is he sane? Does he ask questions to expand his own skills? Does he insist that his way is "the only right way" or accept input from other people?
All of that can be demonstrated in places like this web page, and could go a long ways towards helping to determine the hiring answer.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 17, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Thanks for the replies guys.
I'll report back with my progress with the SQL team inflitration.
January 17, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I also do the 'Question of the Day' and it really helps to improve my skill.
January 21, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I was thinking about using forums as reference on a resume. It may be a bit unconventional, but at the same time, a really great idea!
January 21, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I definitely point people to my posts in the forums. I think they show my skills, what I think, and how I tackle problems, not to mention how I mentor people.
It's a great resume bullet.
January 25, 2008 at 11:03 am
If the group is really tight knit, you might want to consider your approach to them carefully. You don't want them to think you're trying to steal one of their jobs or that you're looking to "mooch" off them in a bad way.
While you're asking them for knowledge, volunteer to help them with minor projects. Or offer to tweak their PCs for them or something. Be polite, be nice, and be careful that you don't come across as the badgering trainee who won't leave them alone when they have "real" work to do.
Some people don't mind having their brains picked over lunch, for instance. Of course, you'll want to have specific questions ready when you do said picking. That will help them believe you are genuinely interested. After all, if you've studied enough to know what questions to ask, they'll probably treat you more like a collegue than potential "job thief".
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply