Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Redgate
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On

Add to briefcase 123»»»

Technology: Where have all the women gone? Expand / Collapse
Posted Monday, February 12, 2007 3:30 PM

Right there with Babe

Right there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with BabeRight there with Babe

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 10:08 AM
Points: 787, Visits: 341
Working Women

Steve Jones recently sent me a link to this article "The Vanishing IT Woman--System i Women Respond" and wondered what I thought about it. The article was written in response to recent research showing an alarming decrease in the number of women in information technology careers.

I have to admit that I am not a big proponent of having a certain number of women working in any particular field. I believe that anyone with the talent and desire to work in technology should be encouraged to do so, regardless of gender. But a quote in the article from Nate Viall of Nate Viall & Associates, a recruiting and industry research firm, really made me sit up and take notice: “in the late 1990s, women made up 40 percent of application developers with less than three years of experience. Today, that number is 10 percent.” Viall also mentioned a surprising decline in female computer science majors during the same time period. I think that 40 percent sounds curiously high. I suspect that some people were recruited into programming
during the Y2K and dot com boom days who really didn’t belong there. But maybe there is something to this; maybe women who have the necessary talent are choosing other careers, and IT is the worse off for it.

The article considers many possible reasons for this trend. For example, family responsibilities and work/life balance may play a big role in keeping women from considering IT or leaving IT once they are there. Long hours spent at work during project crunch times can take its toll on family life. My previous career was much more family friendly than the DBA job I have now. In fact, that field, pharmacy has seen the number of women increase substantially over the past 25 years or so in the US. Other fields, such as dentistry and law may also be more attractive to women than IT.

In my opinion, interest in computers at the high school and college levels is just not there. Many of the current students have grown up with computers in their homes and in the classroom. I haven’t done a study, of course, but most of the kids I talk to think of computers as a tool, and they aren’t interested in learning how computers work or in making a career focused on them. I think of my car that way. I don’t care how it works and don’t want to be a mechanic or a race car driver. I just want my car to get me where I need to go. There also seems to be a real fear of being labeled a "nerd" or "geek," especially by the girls. Television and movies encourage these sterotypes.

I think that men will probably always outnumber women in IT, and I don’t really believe that is necessarily bad. Should we be concerned about numbers? I’m not really sure, and, personally, I don’t care about the numbers. I would like to see children exposed to programming during the middle-school and high school years so that those boys and girls with the innate talent will think about choosing technology careers. The most important things to me is that anyone who wants to work in IT should have that opportunity.

Post #344363
Posted Monday, February 12, 2007 11:36 PM
Valued Member

Valued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued Member

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:23 AM
Points: 64, Visits: 1
wrt the labelling issue - a good friend of mine has just finished her Honours degree in CompSci and is now going into Masters.  She is very regularly labelled a geek, but most often by herself!  She revels in the appellation, but that's certainly not a common reaction, and it is certainly a very valid concern for girls who are bothered by the label...


Post #344442
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:51 AM
SSC Veteran

SSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC Veteran

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:09 AM
Points: 211, Visits: 18

Perhaps it's a genetic thing.  Perhaps the slightly soul-less nature of IT is off-putting for many women.

Many women seem more comfortable in HR, teaching or marketing than men; with men happier in IT and accounting.  

Could it just be as simple as the Mars/Venus deal - women being attracted by people professions and men being drawn to machines and numbers and cold hard facts?

I'll get my coat.



Post #344471
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:20 AM


Group: Moderators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 6:27 AM
Points: 7,061, Visits: 2,660

Nice comments Kathi!

SQLAndy - My Blog!
Connect with me on LinkedIn
Follow me on Twitter
Post #344501
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:30 AM
SSC Journeyman

SSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC Journeyman

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, February 19, 2016 7:02 AM
Points: 97, Visits: 203
I think Melville is on to something.  I believe by nature, women are more nurturing and this is a very good thing for our society.  I believe we are seeing a major cultural shift.  I think many women have experienced the business rat race up close and personal and are repulsed by it.  I believe many of them are choosing to return home and start families.  My wife and I tried switching roles one year (when our children were 1 & 2 years old) she went to work and I stayed at home with the kids.  My children were extatic when we decided this was not working and Mommy came home.  That is not to say that there are no families in which this is not a good fit, however, I think those families are the exception and not the rule.
Post #344503
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:33 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:02 AM
Points: 8, Visits: 18

I work with a female programmer who is married...she thinks of herself as having many traits more commonly found in men, such as an obsession with computer games, etc. But she still very different from men who program. She insists on spending at least 15 to 30 minutes a day talking...just about anything. She told me that, otherwise, programming is just too dehumanizing and technologically-overfocused. This focus, which is a male trait, is something that doesn't bother me, but I enjoy the talks. It helps me relax and "be myself" for a change.

We studied the trend of women in IT back in the 80s when I was in college, and the prediction was that by the year 2004, there would be 20-30% women in the field (it was 5% at the time). I think the actual percentage in 2007 (in America) is between 10% and 15%...this is progress and we should welcome it.

Men invented computers, programming languages, and set up the IT departments (dysfunctional as they may be) that employ computer programmers. It is not unsurprising that women feel unwelcome and out of place in these environments. Even the woman who manages the network engineering dept. where I work tends to be unusually focused and logical. I think the industry draws these kinds of people to it. As I grow older and become more well rounded as a human being, I find myself increasingly out of place with the people around me. I have been told that IT values computer professionals who have people skills and are team players, and they do. But such people in IT are rare. People with such skills stay away from IT like it was the plague...they don't like working with people who lack the normal human graces.

Post #344526
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:36 AM
Valued Member

Valued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued Member

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, January 11, 2008 10:22 AM
Points: 69, Visits: 9
Here we go again.

Inevitably this discussion comes up. Inevitably the answer is that women just aren't fit for IT, because they're sweet, mothering types that can't hack the competitive industry or the hours or the work. It must be the nature of the work and the genetic/socialized nature of women.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the culture or sexism or the fact that being the only woman working in large groups of men really has some distinct downsides, particularly if you're unfortunate enough to be young/pretty.

I know. I've been doing it for my entire career.

I'm really, really, really tired of constantly having this discussion, so I'll just post a link to a document that was developed by a group that's dedicated in encouraging more women in technology. This document was written with the feedback of many women that are currently in IT positions. Some are Linux kernel developers, many are authors, many are network and security professionals and DBAs, many do helpdesk. But most importantly, the words in the HOWTO reflect the experiences of *many* women, not just a few random bad encounters.

HOWTO Encourage Women in Linux

Bracing myself for the flames...
Post #344528
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:41 AM


Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:51 AM
Points: 2,882, Visits: 3,324

I have a teenage son and a lot of my friends have teenage children ready to go to college, 9 out of 10 will not take computer science as major. In 1995, I remembered a lot of students majoring in computer science.  I can think of two reasons why today kids do no not want to major in computer science.

First, the parents discourage them.  In year 2000 after the burst, most of the computer technical people lost their jobs.  Some even had to change career.  A lot big companies start outsourcing computer work to other countries.  So most the parents advise kids to take biochemical, pharmacy, biology or any other medical fields.  They think it has more future and at least those fields cannot outsource to other country.  When you are sick, you definitely will not fly to India to see a doctor, will you?  

Second, my son is 11 grade.  He is taking JAVA programming at school. He wrote all his papers using microsoft word at 6th grade.  He learnt microsoft office, photoshop, macromedia, built his web website all on his own.  Recently he built his own computer.  So he said he would not major in computer science in college, it is his hobby.  He wants to major something more "challenging".   Most of his friends already know how to program in C#, Java, web programming without going to college.  My son joined the robotic team, the kids already knew how to write C program to make the robot to work.  Why bothers to major in computer sience ?   Just liked my son, they all want to major in more challenging fields - becoming a doctor, majoring in chemical engineering, EE, stem cell research.....As they say, those fields bring a brighter future.

My 2 cents.


Post #344532
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:44 AM


Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, June 6, 2016 7:25 AM
Points: 19, Visits: 478

I disagree 100 percent that IT is a turn off to women because of "genetics". I know MANY successful woman from chemists to CPAs. Comments like that are truly ignorant.

I think one of the biggest challenges I've faced as a woman working in IT is finding a company that understands the need for balance between work and home. I'll work the extra hours when the need arises (and I have enough experience to know when it really is necessary) otherwise when the work day is done I have family needs to fulfill. Of all the DBA jobs I've had the best ones have been those with flexible work hours and bosses that understand what family is.

Post #344533
Posted Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:44 AM


Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:07 AM
Points: 11, Visits: 6

Well I am not tired of having this discussion and since I know my perspective and opinions on the subject has changed a lot throughout my career I think it is important to keep the discussion going......

But that aside...  Great editorial Kathy!   You bring up a lot of great points. 

I agree that "family responsibilities and work/life balance may play a big role in keeping women from considering IT or leaving IT once they are there". When I was in my early 20's I was as gung ho as anyone (male or female), eager to learn as much as possible and make my way up the IT ladder. And I did just that. I decided to go the technical route and made my way up to a senior DBA position... (which at the time to me was the top of the heap! I was making great money, loved my job, loved solving technical issues, loved learning new things... didn't mind waking up every few days when the page went off at 2:00am... ) In my thirties... my priorities definately started to change... I still enjoyed my career, but found it to be a bit of a grind... and less challenging. Life balance and starting a family became much more of a priority. I also found the part of my career that I enjoyed most was working with the clients. In my current job the DBAs do not have that much face to face with the clients and tend to work mainly with the developers... A few years ago I switched to Data Warehousing and am enjoying that a lot more.... I work mainly with the clients, do a lot of analysis, data modelling and coding... I haven't left IT... but what influenced my career satisfaction has definately changed. If I had started having children earlier, that change probably would have come earlier too... 


Lynda Rab
Post #344534
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase 123»»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse