October 4, 2016 at 11:36 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Do you have DBA syndrome?
October 5, 2016 at 12:14 am
Did the DBA who refused the stored procedure say why?
The "why" is critically important.
I had a similar situation with a SAN administrator. When I sat down with them and discussed it they were in a horrible situation where they had been warning of IO capacity problems and they were nursemaiding a ticking bomb. The proposed new system would wind the hands on the bomb timer forward in a huge leap.
What I have learned through life is that you get nothing for being right but one hell of a lot for saying things in a manner where people are willing to listen
October 5, 2016 at 1:00 am
From a programmer's perspective, I'd say, anything that you'd want to use to communicate with the database should be "tested". Anything which would be new to the database (e.g. Triggers, SP, Views) should be "Proven and tested". But the DBA is not the problem, in my case, its the management. They don't want change yet they want to enhance things. They DBA says yes, programmers says yes, then management says NO, then to hell with your effort.
October 5, 2016 at 1:46 am
joshua 15769 (10/5/2016)
From a programmer's perspective, I'd say, anything that you'd want to use to communicate with the database should be "tested". Anything which would be new to the database (e.g. Triggers, SP, Views) should be "Proven and tested". But the DBA is not the problem, in my case, its the management. They don't want change yet they want to enhance things. They DBA says yes, programmers says yes, then management says NO, then to hell with your effort.
This brings up another question. To what extent is what we (as developers and DBAs) do a black box. Are we abdicating responsibility and authority over our area of expertise to a decision making authority who no sweet FA, know that they know sweet FA and are scared to make a decision as they cannot know the probability of a risk turning into an issue?
October 5, 2016 at 2:01 am
Of course the issue exists. I've known DBAs that decree no new feature of the DBMS can be used until it's at least one release old (so that other people have tested it in the field). One guy wanted to prohibit outer joins... An "old hand", he'd seen the outer joins perform poorly, and wanted the application to read both tables then join internally.
October 5, 2016 at 2:27 am
I think that most DBAs I have met with this syndrome have been closer to being a Theoden character; there usually is a Wormtongue and no one feels that they are in a position to challenge the thinking.
Fortunately for me there will have to be a different syndrome suggested for me as I am a developer. Dick Van Dyke's character from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, perhaps?
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 5, 2016 at 6:04 am
What about companies where there are no DBAs and the developer has to stand in as a DBA. That would be me. Well, no DBA and only developer and I have carte blanche. My problem would be the network IT guy who continuously complains about the disk space that my backups and log shipping take up and guards the network like a bulldog and does not like changes on the servers/network and whatever else and has such strict rules on the internet that you cannot move. What do you call that?:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
October 5, 2016 at 6:04 am
I am a developer and have many times been frustrated at hard headed DBAs.
But in the places where they have been the most intransigent, they are also the busiest. They are working 45 hours a week, dealing with issues, deployments sprung on them at the last moment. These deployments most of the time are not orchestrated well.
It is great to say "automate it." But when you are already over worked, when do you have the time to create systems? How do you automate deployments that come from various development groups.
And management doesn't help. My biggest problem with creating deployment scripts has been testing. I need a SQL Server that I have permission to restore a database to that I can run my deployment scripts against. I figure I am going to go through the process of restoring the database, running my script, testing and fixing the script and restoring, etc several times. But management sees that as an unnecessary resource. So I give it to the DBA and cross my fingers. Poor guy/gal!
Russel Loski, MCSE Business Intelligence, Data Platform
October 5, 2016 at 6:21 am
David.Poole (10/5/2016)
Did the DBA who refused the stored procedure say why?The "why" is critically important.
I never met the guy, but I heard that he was pretty passive. People would ask him to do something or release something. Then, he would grunt or said sure, but in the end he would drag his feet and not do anything. So there might be a different problem there. Still the end result was in line sql which is a big nightmare now.
October 5, 2016 at 6:32 am
Forcing developers to write inline SQL statements is a worse crime than letting developers write inline SQL statements.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 5, 2016 at 6:38 am
manie (10/5/2016)
...My problem would be the network IT guy who continuously complains about the disk space that my backups and log shipping take up and guards the network like a bulldog and does not like changes on the servers/network and whatever else and has such strict rules on the internet that you cannot move. What do you call that?:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:
If you are a Harry Potter fan then call him Fluffy otherwise use Greek mythologic (obviously the origins of J K Rowling's dog character) and call him Cerberus.
I'd go with Fluffy. Mainly because I suspect that he isn't 😛
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 5, 2016 at 6:44 am
Being myself worked as both DBA and developer, I have interacted with the other for both sides. Each camp, people who are ready to learn and grow, makes work always a wonderful experience. But yes I have seen some DBAs who would stay stubborn and hinder development without suggesting alternatives, making developers go crazy or 'creative' 😉
October 5, 2016 at 6:53 am
They are working 45 hours a week
So they're part-time? 😉
October 5, 2016 at 7:08 am
It's important that the DBA be an integral team member. Include their database development and deployment tasks as part of sprint planning and invite them to daily stand-up meetings. Invite the DBA to lunch gathering while you're at it. If folks are just shooting the DBA emails with a .sql attchment and instructions like "Please deploy this in production by COB today.", then you can understand how they end up feeling disconnected and adversarial.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 5, 2016 at 7:18 am
joeroshan (10/5/2016)
Being myself worked as both DBA and developer, I have interacted with the other for both sides. Each camp, people who are ready to learn and grow, makes work always a wonderful experience. But yes I have seen some DBAs who would stay stubborn and hinder development without suggesting alternatives, making developers go crazy or 'creative' 😉
...and if us developers are being open and honest then we would have to admit that there exists maverick developers who do whatever they feel like. Almost like perfect opposites; a static monolith and a hurricane.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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