September 17, 2015 at 10:25 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Counter Offer - Part 2
September 18, 2015 at 2:29 am
People don't generally leave a company if they are happy. In most cases this means that if there is any disloyalty it's usually from the employer. Thus, in most cases, the employer has failed to take care of it's employees. The exception to this that I see is that you are happy but receive an offer that makes you even more happy, to put it simply.
Thus people should really not think about it as a betrayal even if many companies and bosses wants you to feel it like that, it's in their interest to make you feel like that.
September 18, 2015 at 3:49 am
I've been around long enough to know that any employer will act in their perceived interests regardless of your interests. I completely agree that you should maximise your value. Unfortunately employers often do not appreciate a person's value until they are gone.
For myself I always try and make myself as dispensable as possible, counter-intuitively I think this is real value, as this creates a situation where anything can be picked up and worked on and be more independent of the personnel. Thus when I do move on I can do so easily and with clear conscience. For myself old school those who act protectors of jobs by keeping things obscure are suspect value wise.
September 18, 2015 at 6:07 am
I think everyone would do well to remember the old adage when dealing with this subject:
"It's not personal, it's just business."
I've been on both sides. There were times when no counter-offer in the world would have kept me where I was. On one occasion, I was all set to leave and the company I was working for made me an offer that took away all my reason for leaving. I stayed (I didn't have an offer in hand, but I was going through an interview process and my boss was aware I was looking).
The place to address dissatisfaction in your current job is performance reviews. Either your company will make the "counter offer" there to keep you or you'll come to the realization it is time to move on and the question is settled once you turn in your resignation.
____________
Just my $0.02 from over here in the cheap seats of the peanut gallery - please adjust for inflation and/or your local currency.
September 18, 2015 at 6:29 am
The counter offer decision has become very easy for me. I never take it. In over 30 years of experience and many moves, I've always been better off after a move. Through that time, I began to notice that one can move up the ladder much quicker by moving than by staying. Sometimes skipping 2 or more rungs, which I've never experienced or seen in anyone who stays.
This may just be my experience but I've never heard anyone say "I regret moving and wish I had stayed put".
I don't say that my mind is already made up when I give my notice. I let them make a counter offer if they want and then politely decline.
Dave
September 18, 2015 at 6:34 am
What Dave said.
September 18, 2015 at 6:38 am
The counter offer decision has become very easy for me. I never take it. In over 30 years of experience and many moves, I've always been better off after a move. Through that time, I began to notice that one can move up the ladder much quicker by moving than by staying. Sometimes skipping 2 or more rungs, which I've never experienced or seen in anyone who stays.
My mentor, says "You should always have an updated resume and a exit strategy the day you start a new job. There is no promotion track in todays business except through employment changes. There is no loyalty, everyone is a mercenary. Only you have your own back at work."
Since he is a certified Master and owns his own business after years of employment, I trust what he says.
If I get an offer, a counter offer is raise that was stolen from me in the first place.
September 18, 2015 at 6:49 am
I wouldn't ever expect the counter offer to happen. If it does, great, it means, as you said, 2 companies think you are worth it.
I think most people don't feel guilty about leaving a position because of the company, but because of the co-workers. You know how hard your co-workers work and you feel like you are adding to their workload, but this is definitely one area where a me first attitude is necessary.
I'd also disagree with Dave's comment:
This may just be my experience but I've never heard anyone say "I regret moving and wish I had stayed put".
I have heard people say this and even know people who have gone back.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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September 18, 2015 at 7:44 am
chrisn-585491 (9/18/2015)
The counter offer decision has become very easy for me. I never take it. In over 30 years of experience and many moves, I've always been better off after a move. Through that time, I began to notice that one can move up the ladder much quicker by moving than by staying. Sometimes skipping 2 or more rungs, which I've never experienced or seen in anyone who stays.
My mentor, says "You should always have an updated resume and a exit strategy the day you start a new job. There is no promotion track in todays business except through employment changes. There is no loyalty, everyone is a mercenary. Only you have your own back at work."
Since he is a certified Master and owns his own business after years of employment, I trust what he says.
If I get an offer, a counter offer is raise that was stolen from me in the first place.
Wow, powerful words, if you don't mind me asking who is your mentor? He sounds like a strong character.
September 18, 2015 at 8:24 am
I had a similar experience a few years ago where (after much gnashing of teeth and tunic tearing) I decided to leave. The problem was mostly cultural and I didn't expect them to change just for me, so I tried to keep it simple for myself and decided ahead of time to not entertain any counter-offers if they did so (they did). I left on good terms with a clear conscience. The dilemma was that not even 6 months later they came back to me with a ridiculously good offer that I couldn't refuse and THAT was a real problem. Ultimately, I was upfront with my new employer and gave them about 5 weeks notice and went back. Happy ending? Not quite. About a year later the company got sold and the new owners outsourced the database operations (btw my old boss hates it but doesn't have a choice). The day that happened, I made a quick inquiry back to where I was previously and they invited me back. I ended up taking another offer but the point is I kept on good terms with both parties. Your reputation is worth more than your salary.
September 18, 2015 at 9:43 am
BL0B_EATER (9/18/2015)
chrisn-585491 (9/18/2015)
The counter offer decision has become very easy for me. I never take it. In over 30 years of experience and many moves, I've always been better off after a move. Through that time, I began to notice that one can move up the ladder much quicker by moving than by staying. Sometimes skipping 2 or more rungs, which I've never experienced or seen in anyone who stays.
My mentor, says "You should always have an updated resume and a exit strategy the day you start a new job. There is no promotion track in todays business except through employment changes. There is no loyalty, everyone is a mercenary. Only you have your own back at work."
Since he is a certified Master and owns his own business after years of employment, I trust what he says.
If I get an offer, a counter offer is raise that was stolen from me in the first place.
Wow, powerful words, if you don't mind me asking who is your mentor? He sounds like a strong character.
I'd agree with the mentor for the most part. Always keep your resume up to date, work to expand your network, and work to improve yourself on your own time and dime. If you aren't doing those things, eventually it'll come back to bite you. There are very few places where you'll spend you entire career now, especially in IT. At some point your position will get out-sourced or down-sized no matter how good you are.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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September 18, 2015 at 10:58 am
.. Staying or going isn’t about loyalty, it’s about what is best for you and you can measure that in any way you want – money, vacation, or anything else. Stay with a company while your interests are aligned, have a conversation if those interests start to diverge, and move on when it’s time. Do it professionally of course, but don’t avoid making a change just out of loyalty. ..
Andy, these career oriented editorials that you and Steve have been writing here for the past year coincide with a period when I was experiencing my own internal debates about changing jobs. After nine years with my former employer, I actually accepted a new position a few weeks ago. In my case a didn't matter, the reality is that I had simply lost interest in the job, felt I had reached a ceiling in terms of opportunity, and my main objective was to find a new position that I could grow and put my creative energy into. It wasn't an easy decision, changing jobs is harder later in life, and I quit mentally a hundred times before I actually started exploring other opportunities in earnest and chose to accept another offer.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 18, 2015 at 11:34 am
Wow, powerful words, if you don't mind me asking who is your mentor? He sounds like a strong character.
No. He is well known in the SQL Server field. You may surmise a set of possibilities by selecting folks with a Master Cert that own their own business and offer career advice.
Currently I'm having the same issue he ran into time and again. Management folks don't trust technical experts and end up running projects aground over trivial issues.
September 18, 2015 at 12:01 pm
A while ago I recall a Dilbert carton about someone who felt guilty about looking for a new job. A think it was Dogbert that stated: "Why, they don't feel guilty about looking for a replacement for you!"
Think of companies (or your department) as a ship, and you as a crew member. Is your ship on a course to reward you with gold and adventure? Or is the captain insane and heading the ship towards the rocks? If you have the chance to jump to a better ship - do it. They will not hesitate to throw you overboard if you are deadweight.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
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