Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 
        
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On


Add to briefcase 1234»»»

Artist or Scientist? Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Monday, August 18, 2014 8:31 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:38 AM
Points: 33,267, Visits: 15,436
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Artist or Scientist?






Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1604739
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:57 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:13 AM
Points: 5,415, Visits: 3,140
Whilst I imagine that most of us are not all one or the other, I find that like most I fit more into one category than the other. I am a scientist.

Over my time programming some people have derided me for taking the fun out of programming by expecting, nay, demanding that tests be written, that comments are made appropriately, that documentation is completed, that builds are not broken, that scripts are treated as code (commented, documented, tested, source controlled). I have a different perspective.

If we behave as scientists then that allows us room for flare, innovation and, yes, artistry. I imagine that this is exactly the same in other scientific fields as well. By following best practices and standards we allow our mental focus to shift to the challenges which fall outside of "the norm".


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1604782
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:02 AM
SSCommitted

SSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommitted

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:34 AM
Points: 1,639, Visits: 5,621
I probably count as both, too, but the distinction with me is that I'll take the "artist" approach for something that I know will only happen a few times--the extra effort of writing the automation doesn't make sense for something that isn't often going to be automated, IMHO!
Post #1604819
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:14 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:13 AM
Points: 5,415, Visits: 3,140
paul.knibbs (8/19/2014)
I probably count as both, too, but the distinction with me is that I'll take the "artist" approach for something that I know will only happen a few times--the extra effort of writing the automation doesn't make sense for something that isn't often going to be automated, IMHO!


Makes total sense.

Experience can indicate when a "one off" will likely become a BAU (Business As Usual) process. We can all make the wrong call and it will happen at times. There must be a recognition, if only internally, that if we cater for BAU that remains a "one off" then we may have wasted effort and if the "one off" becomes BAU then we risk the outcome of technical debt.

As with most things, it depends.

Make the call. Deal with the consequences. Move on.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1604823
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:17 AM
SSC Eights!

SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Saturday, September 13, 2014 4:06 AM
Points: 988, Visits: 804
Makes total sense, but I don't visit SSC to be told what I must or must not do. Maybe I'm having a bad day
Post #1604825
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:31 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:13 AM
Points: 5,415, Visits: 3,140
david.wright-948385 (8/19/2014)
Makes total sense, but I don't visit SSC to be told what I must or must not do. Maybe I'm having a bad day


Surely advocating something as best practice only makes sense said with a voice of authority. It is up to us as fellow professionals to debate openly, honestly and with confidence. You can treat it as a lecture or just as viewpoint to be debated.

I hope that your day improves!!!


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1604828
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:50 AM
SSC Rookie

SSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC RookieSSC Rookie

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, September 15, 2014 12:45 PM
Points: 41, Visits: 41
I agree with Steve although I would the subject into different words.

Scientists build maintainable code and do not incorporate the latest technology without considering the ramifications. I know an architect who incorporated Linq to SQL in an enterprise application while Linq was in Beta. When Linq went RTM it had a different set of behaviors than in Beta and the enterprise application blew up.

Scientists also build secure applications. If security considerations are not foremost in your design of application software regardless of the stated specifications you are asking for trouble.

My next statement is probably going to get me into trouble. Agile programming is a function of artistry. There is no fixed deadline, no defined specifications, no defined architecture and little consideration for documentation.

In my mind the only place for artistry is in the prototyping of a solution that will ultimately be documented and thoroughly tested.
Post #1604856
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:54 AM
Valued Member

Valued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued MemberValued Member

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 1:39 AM
Points: 67, Visits: 429
In my humble opinion the behavior you expect is more like an engineer than a scientist. The latter might be involved in some innovative research project or the exploration of yet unknown possibilities of some new technology. The former works along the lines of standards and best practices to build something that is reliable, maintainable and has predictable behavior in nearly every environment.

The science behind databases has mostly been developed by mathematics. While I think it is necessary to understand the theory behind the tools you are working with on a daily basis, one does not need to be a scientist to maintain a production environment. Both the artist and the scientist should work in a development environment; even the 'art' of performance tuning should not be conducted within a production environment. As usual, it depends ... in smaller organizations resources may be scarce and the artist, scientist and engineer may be the same person.

Working as an engineer pays of when your work has to last for a long time and people are willing to pay for all the extra time involved in this approach. In every day life that might not be the case: things must be adapted fast to new technology and new demands of clients at the lowest possible costs. That's the hardest task today in guarding your production environment like an engineer ... convincing your boss.
Post #1604858
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 6:28 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:13 AM
Points: 5,415, Visits: 3,140
eric.notheisen (8/19/2014)
...
My next statement is probably going to get me into trouble. Agile programming is a function of artistry. There is no fixed deadline, no defined specifications, no defined architecture and little consideration for documentation.
...


That is how NOT to do Agile. This is what a lot of people believe (including many practitioners). When you hear a so-called Agile expert saying that the code is all the documentation you need then please show them the door (without payment).

BTW Eric my ire is not aimed at you at all!!!


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1604867
Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2014 6:35 AM
SSCrazy

SSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazy

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:49 PM
Points: 2,876, Visits: 235
What drives me crazy are the programmers that always seem to want to make the code better, improve it, optimize it, when it is running just fine now. I say leave well enough alone. There is plenty of other work to do. If it isn't broke, don't fix it, because when they do fix it they invariably break something. There is usually some obscure logic, written poorly perhaps, that they miss and don't put into their re-written version.
Post #1604872
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase 1234»»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse