Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 
        
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On


Add to briefcase «««45678

Developers vs. DBAs Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Monday, June 23, 2014 5:05 AM


Old Hand

Old HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld Hand

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:19 AM
Points: 345, Visits: 3,344
simon.crick (6/12/2014)
Tension arise when Developer and DBA roles/responsibilities are not properly separated.
It sounds simple because it is. Problems only arise when people forget the basic principles of software engineering, i.e. every component must have a well-defined interface, and users of a component must not bypass the interface or make any assumptions about how the component works internally.



You would think so. But when I've suggested this in interviews for some places in the past, it's been received slightly less well than if I'd something obscenely biological


I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
Post #1585050
Posted Monday, June 23, 2014 5:35 AM


Old Hand

Old HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld Hand

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:19 AM
Points: 345, Visits: 3,344
Gary Varga (6/12/2014)
[quote]My point is that, bearing in mind the editorial, the whole way of thinking is as flawed as the value of the number of legs as described in Animal Farm (the George Orwell book for those who are aware of other less literary references that can be attributed to). And no I am not calling DBAs pigs



Personally I see myself more as Boxer


I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
Post #1585064
Posted Monday, June 23, 2014 6:32 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 12:34 PM
Points: 5,402, Visits: 3,128
andrew gothard (6/23/2014)
Gary Varga (6/12/2014)
My point is that, bearing in mind the editorial, the whole way of thinking is as flawed as the value of the number of legs as described in Animal Farm (the George Orwell book for those who are aware of other less literary references that can be attributed to). And no I am not calling DBAs pigs



Personally I see myself more as Boxer


Generalising, most DBAs are. They do a lot of the heavy lifting and have zero interest in the politics.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1585085
Posted Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:47 AM


Old Hand

Old HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld Hand

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:19 AM
Points: 345, Visits: 3,344
thomashohner (6/13/2014)
Jeff you must have a crystal ball😁! You just described yesterday for me. I actually had to say this in a email to one of our administrator's, "My reports only show what is, not what you wish your staff had been entering for the last 6 month's".


I have a metaphorical wardrobe rammed with those t-shirts.
Do you get
<Whiny voice> "Well, the computer should just know"
"Well ... you must be able to get it from somewhere"


I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
Post #1585817
Posted Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:32 AM


SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 1:52 PM
Points: 171, Visits: 990
andrew gothard (6/25/2014)
thomashohner (6/13/2014)
Jeff you must have a crystal ball😁! You just described yesterday for me. I actually had to say this in a email to one of our administrator's, "My reports only show what is, not what you wish your staff had been entering for the last 6 month's".


I have a metaphorical wardrobe rammed with those t-shirts.
Do you get
<Whiny voice> "Well, the computer should just know"
"Well ... you must be able to get it from somewhere"


Good Lord, I hear those two quotes verbatim almost weekly. I always try to explain that computers/software are just tools. They do not do your work for you. However it always falls on deaf ears





***SQL born on date Spring 2013
Post #1585893
Posted Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:30 AM


SSCrazy

SSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazySSCrazy

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 9:40 AM
Points: 2,404, Visits: 991
Eirikur Eiriksson (6/12/2014)
Eric M Russell (6/12/2014)
Hollywood should make a film called "A Day Without a DBA" just to show the ignorant public (and cocky app developers) what a total global disaster it would be if we ever decided to step out for lunch and never came back.


Seen worse plots on the big screen!


I don't know I had the misfortune of watching a bit of 'Sharknado' the other night.


I would say I have spent the last ten years as a Production/Operational DBA but as ever there's always that 10-15% of dev work that always happens. I used to try and get it done and over with but last year I took on a contract that was a pure SQL Dev role (i'd been studying for the 70-433 exam anyway) and it was nice to go and see "the other side" for once and whilst I may not have agreed with all their methods I met some very passionate and talented people who taught me a great many things. Also it has increased my knowledge of t-sql immeasurably.

In my mind it comes down to people, regardless of DBA/Dev/BI/whatever, treat people with the respect you think you would like/deserve and it's a great platform to start off on.

qh


SQL 2K acts like a spoilt child - you need to coax it round with lollipops.
Post #1593681
Posted Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:51 PM


Old Hand

Old HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld HandOld Hand

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:19 AM
Points: 345, Visits: 3,344
thomashohner (6/25/2014)
andrew gothard (6/25/2014)
thomashohner (6/13/2014)
Jeff you must have a crystal ball😁! You just described yesterday for me. I actually had to say this in a email to one of our administrator's, "My reports only show what is, not what you wish your staff had been entering for the last 6 month's".


I have a metaphorical wardrobe rammed with those t-shirts.
Do you get
<Whiny voice> "Well, the computer should just know"
"Well ... you must be able to get it from somewhere"


Good Lord, I hear those two quotes verbatim almost weekly. I always try to explain that computers/software are just tools. They do not do your work for you. However it always falls on deaf ears



I have a little homily I sometimes use, roughly;
"Ok, can I just briefly explain what I do for a living, I teach sand to do tricks. That's all a computer is basically and that's what programmers do. Now <x problem> ... could you teach your dog a trick that will solve <x>, because I'm sure you'd agree that your dog's more intelligent than sand. If you can't teach your dog to do it, I have very little chance with some melted sand."
Cat doesn't work - well, you know what cats are like, so do cat owners. NEVER use staff, we all know the response "are your staff cleverer than sand" is likely to elicit 80% of the time.

It never seems to get the point across ... but it amuses me.


I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
Post #1593820
Posted Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:48 PM
SSCommitted

SSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommitted

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 12:25 PM
Points: 1,955, Visits: 5,087
quackhandle1975 (7/17/2014)
I don't know I had the misfortune of watching a bit of 'Sharknado' the other night.


"When a freak hurricane swamps Los Angeles, nature's deadliest killer rules sea, land, and air as thousands of sharks terrorize the waterlogged populace."

Sounds like a normal business meeting
Post #1593849
Posted Friday, July 18, 2014 12:40 AM
Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 8:47 AM
Points: 1,012, Visits: 3,199
I don't know I had the misfortune of watching a bit of 'Sharknado' the other night. :Crazy:


I did the same, I thought it couldn't be that bad could it? How wrong I was.



On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
—Charles Babbage, Passages from the Life of a Philosopher
Post #1593921
Posted Monday, August 11, 2014 6:47 PM
SSC Journeyman

SSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC JourneymanSSC Journeyman

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, September 12, 2014 1:54 PM
Points: 76, Visits: 355
Late to the punch here, but I wanted to comment on the article and not just the mass discussions.

If this is true, then why aren’t the DBAs and the developers working in harmony? In my last few jobs, the developers live in one armed camp and the DBAs in another.


For me, it seems insanely hard to put everyone within reach of everyone they need. It's not just a DBA and developer issue, it's a global one across all roles whether you're a product developer, designer or a QA tester.

Having worked primarily in large-scale video game development of massively online games across multiple studios across the world, it's damn near impossible to construct a system where someone critical is siloed from view.

Is there a way to bridge the divide here and unite the two fractions?


The trick, as in most organizations, is how leadership pulls everything together and bridges the gap between really insanely pity issues like why John the developer has to even interact with Dave the DBA. Or better yet, why it's important to look at the project as a system with many components that depend on each other equally.

If that cannot happen. Then you have a lot of weak points regardless of job titles. Your team, or so-called team, is falling apart in terms of working together. The keyword here being, together.

Sure, that's easier said than done, but at the end of the day, it should be pretty simplistic. Being a DBA is a profession that requires a certain skillset. You cannot simply stay at a Holiday Inn and become a DBA the next day just as you can't do the same for a developer or any other role in the organization. What it comes down to is respect, being a team player and looking out for who? The business and hopefully if you're doing things right, your clients.

Soo to recap, I see the split a lot in my career. I despise them greatly and avoid them at all costs. As a database guy today, I do everything in my power to emphasize team work with those around me. It has served me well in all that I have worked with including developers. So to me, the answer is simple. I promote what I think is right (i.e.: teamwork) and the return is exactly what I expected -- teamwork.
Post #1602120
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase «««45678

Permissions Expand / Collapse