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Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 2:45 AM


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SQLMickey (1/20/2014)
I know you are not attacking me personally, but someone needs to stand up for the poor writer... Because they are afraid to have their writing judged.


Personally, even where I spot grammatical errors or occasional spelling errors (including using the wrong phonetically equal word e.g. their and there) I don't think badly of the writer. Sometimes, though, a writer doesn't make the minimal effort. Often you can look at what is written and tell it is not the author's first language. In which case "hats off to them" (well done) as they are better at English than I am in any other language.

Whilst writers should take more care, perhaps readers should also be more considerate.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1532922
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:05 AM


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Personally while I would expect excellent spelling and grammar from items written for articles and blogs I am not so critical of spelling mistakes in places like forums. Spelling mistakes should not hopefully change the meaning of the idea being conveyed.

It can be tricky where pronouns articles(as in a / the etc) are accidentally omitted as this can totally change the meaning of a sentence.

We must remember however in some of the forums that we participate English may not be the native language of a significant number of participants. Despite this they make the effort to communicate often with poor grammar and spelling. Generally however anyone's second language is better than my foreign languages so I would tend to take them seriously. If someone can write in another language it is very likely that they are open minded and intelligent and while it may be difficult to determine what they are trying to say I am inclined to take them seriously. In all likelihood people who can speak or are trying to write in another language are showing openeness and I would want to return that position.

Besides which shouldn't you listen to everyone, gracefully surrender things to youth and consider kindly the counsel of your elders.

You never know who will come up with a gem.
Post #1532930
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:10 AM


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I would consider myself a reasonably competent writer, English is my first language and I've been writing for years. I still, when I submit something for review, get it back with comments on punctuation (I tend to abuse commas) and phrasings, the occasional incorrect word and the odd spelling mistake. That's even with Word's spelling and grammar checks on. Perfect writing, without an editor, is hard. Damn hard.

If anyone doesn't believe me, write up a short article and ask someone to edit it for you.



Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008, MVP
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Post #1532933
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:49 AM
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It may only get worse! I have heard of schools here in the US removing spelling from the teaching curriculum. They insist that they teach spelling through writing!
Post #1532991
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:59 AM


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CGSJohnson (1/21/2014)
It may only get worse! I have heard of schools here in the US removing spelling from the teaching curriculum. They insist that they teach spelling through writing!


Over here in the UK spelling was no longer being corrected at school but there have been a recent u-turn on that. Of course, some schools ignore such edicts. Personally, if I were a teacher I would have to correct incorrect spelling for the sake of my own sanity!!!


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1533000
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:11 AM
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I taught Introduction to Programming for a couple of semesters (evening, adult bachelors level). One of the things I emphasized was having well-commented code, but I would mark down for poor grammar. I always wonder why we (and I include myself in this group) find it so difficult to write complete sentences in code comments, or leave out the single vowel in a word. Although I did once work with a woman who's philosophy was "We are born with a limited number of keystrokes, so don't waste them."

Tom
Post #1533005
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:36 AM
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CGSJohnson (1/21/2014)
It may only get worse! I have heard of schools here in the US removing spelling from the teaching curriculum. They insist that they teach spelling through writing!


I assume it depends on the area. My local schools don't teach spelling, but they have a spelling test each week up to 5th grade.

On the don't teach part - they won't teach the kids how to spell a word, answer a question about how to spell it, or anything else. They put a list on a web page, expect the child to download it and memorize it. Basic rules about "I" and "E" are NOT taught at all! My kids knew nothing about rules until I taught them.

I have previously stated that there are some outstanding teachers today. Unfortunately they are becoming far, far less common. The average teacher today doesn't have a clue how to teach, doesn't know the subjects they teach, and spends the majority of the day pushing their social/political agenda. Those teachers that are able to run a classroom and impart true knowledge to their class stand out like a sore thumb. Why? Because they are about as rare.

Their reasoning on spelling is that computers know how to spell. Unfortunately the classes they offer on using a computer are a joke. They are "teaching" skills that kids learned years ago, and trying to pass it off as education.


Dave
Post #1533023
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:59 AM


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djackson 22568 (1/21/2014)
...Basic rules about "I" and "E" are NOT taught at all!...


Trouble with that is that the heuristic is misleading. In the Oxford English Dictionary there are more words with the spelling "...cie..." than "...cei...".


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1533033
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:15 AM
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Gary Varga (1/21/2014)
djackson 22568 (1/21/2014)
...Basic rules about "I" and "E" are NOT taught at all!...


Trouble with that is that the heuristic is misleading. In the Oxford English Dictionary there are more words with the spelling "...cie..." than "...cei...".



Misleading, maybe. However the basic portion of "i before e exept after c" and "not weigh and neighbor" have ensured I spell words with "i and e" correctly 99% of the time. I will accept those rare words spelled wrong. This heuristic (is that what it is called???) helps for the main words we use.


Dave
Post #1533046
Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:18 AM


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I was doing some work in Lightswitch the other day VS2013 and I note that in the schema diagram after you have named a table Contact it will automatically make it plural in the schema diagram ie it becomes Contacts. It seems to do this for most table names.

Great but seems an unnecessary additional overhead for little gain. I think I understand that if I name a table something and I put multiple records in some way the content of the table can be said to be plural. I have seen myself pluralise table names myself occasionally.

I haven't tested yet what happens with things like uncountable nouns but I do know it corrects address adding es. Does VS2013 have a database of english words that allows it to plurailise things correctly (eg sheep). Additionally given that MS is a gobal company what happens for all the other language translations. Also is this an alias or is it the new name of the table - in code will I get an error if I refer to the table as changed or should I stick with the original name?

I'm just saying relying on predictive spelling databases seems excessive and can introduce other problems I prefer not to use them and whats more would prefer not to be forced into having them implemented on my behalf.
Post #1533049
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