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It's not the platform Expand / Collapse
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Posted Wednesday, December 25, 2013 8:30 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item It's not the platform






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Post #1525926
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:35 AM
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AMEN!! A sentiment much of the IT world could put into practice, and not just with database platforms.

The general lack of such an attitude on SSC is what makes reading through forums, articles, etc. a part of my day I look forward to. Heck, I even log into my work email from home on days off just to see what's up in the newsletter. There's been some spirited debates and discussions on various topics to be sure, but they've been overwhelmingly respectful. I see extremely little of the "if you don't agree with me, you're an idiot" type of posts. That tells me I'm dealing with a group that understands what professionalism really means, to say nothing of just plain old-fashioned politeness. And that is exceptional given that many folks here can and do make a fair chunk of change consulting and yet still take the time to graciously answer the questions we bratty little children pester them with on a daily basis .


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Post #1525948
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 5:46 AM


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Why is it headline news that you agree with me, Steve? Are you saying you don't always agree with me, is that what you're saying? You'd better not be lying to me when you say you listen to Hall & Oates all day, every day just like I do. You're out of touch, I'm out of time.


Post #1525951
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:27 AM


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Spot on Steve, and Brent, uh, and lshanahan! I came from an Oracle world and was very pleased to find SSC, which was not rankerous in its discussions. I have never felt very comfortable in the religious platform -vs- platform discussion, and you have pointed out why, it is the people making the machine go Vrooom, not the machine itself. I admit, I had not articulated that, even to myself, earlier.

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Post #1525960
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 7:29 AM
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Steve is soooo very right on this one. Regardless of platform, the area where so many DBAs are lacking is just good old database design. An artist may have a full palette of colors, but if he doesn't understand (or is incapable of producing) good form, he may never be a great artist.

All too often, DBAs have a great knowledge of the nuts and bolts of a platform, but lack the necessary understanding of how to arrange them appropriately.

Asking the questions what are really trying to accomplish both immediately and in the not-too-distant future will often lead one to discover ways to create good database design.

Regards.
Rick
Post #1525966
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:28 AM


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During many of the SQL Saturday presentations I make I allude to how AWESOME SQL Server is in that my 8 year old daughter can put in an install disk and click next-next-next and she will have a functioning database platform. And she can insert a 3rd party application install disk and click next-next-next and she now has a functioning database application using that SQL Server. And the pair will just keep right on storing and serving up data with default everything, and do so quite nicely. No knowledge whatsoever required.

Then I say that if you are LUCKY, your company will reach a certain level of need for SLA, response time, concurrency, throughput, uptime, etc. and then you just GOT to start doing some things right and stop doing other things sub-optimally to get where you need to be. But again, we have such an AWESOME platform to work with because there are SOOOO many things that can be done with it where BOOM - order of magnitude improvement ... BAM - another order of magnitude improvement ... POW - another 50% improvement.

I have never touched Oracle, DB2, MySQL, etc. but I would expect they are quite similar in all respects. Well, maybe not the 8 yo next-next-next installation.


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Post #1525972
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:50 AM


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I agree with Steve that training is more important than the platform. It's not hard to become a novice at any of them. In my experience it does seem to take longer to become proficient in Oracle though. I find that their documentation is a little harder to work through. Less wizards as well. In the end this is probably better though as it requires you to know a little more about the nuts and bolts versus just clicking a button in a wizard and letting the software do it all for you.

I would also say that the setup of Oracle definitely takes more time to get right. I have to install Oracle client tools on some of our servers for connectivity to other servers in our network. The Oracle install is always a bit painful and we often have to tweak folder settings and such to get everything to communicate properly. I have never had as much trouble installing SQL Server or connecting to a remote SQL Server.

So in the end, I think you can get up to speed with a working DB faster with SQL Server which is why a lot of people seem to prefer it if they do not already have a RDBMS in place. Also cost has historically been a large factor in choosing SQL Server over Oracle. I haven't done this comparison for a while though so I don't know if that is still a major factor or not. This still does not make SQL Server better than Oracle, I think it just makes it a bit more approachable.
Post #1525975
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:00 AM


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Brent Ozar (12/26/2013)
Why is it headline news that you agree with me, Steve? Are you saying you don't always agree with me, is that what you're saying? You'd better not be lying to me when you say you listen to Hall & Oates all day, every day just like I do. You're out of touch, I'm out of time.


We probably agree more than we disagree, but in this case I thought I'd point it out to others.

I haven't listened to, dressed like, or had hair like, H&O in a long time, though my wife likes their music.







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Post #1525981
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:30 AM


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Very true Steve. Part of SQL Server's problem is also its strength. By making SQL Server "easy" MS has ensured that there will be many "accidental DBA's" working with their product.

When was the last time you ever ran into an accidental Oracle DBA? I'm sure they exist, but they are few in number because if a business opts to go with Oracle, they generally do so with the expectation that they need specialist expertise to manage it.



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If most people are not willing to see the difficulty, this is mainly because, consciously or unconsciously, they assume that it will be they who will settle these questions for the others, and because they are convinced of their own capacity to do this. -Friedrich August von Hayek



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Post #1525991
Posted Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:37 AM


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DCPeterson (12/26/2013)
Very true Steve. Part of SQL Server's problem is also its strength. By making SQL Server "easy" MS has ensured that there will be many "accidental DBA's" working with their product.

When was the last time you ever ran into an accidental Oracle DBA? I'm sure they exist, but they are few in number because if a business opts to go with Oracle, they generally do so with the expectation that they need specialist expertise to manage it.


Thank you for so eloquently summarizing my position on this!
Post #1525992
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