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Becoming an MVP Expand / Collapse
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Posted Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:45 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Becoming an MVP






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Post #1510008
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:08 AM


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I agree with you Steve.

I also think that there are a few MVPs who you can feel worked towards getting it as opposed to those who were incidentally awarded it. It is an achievement anyone can be proud of, however, there are a small minority who use it as a stick rather than a badge of honour. Shame on them but I certainly wouldn't let a minority's poor judgement be used to tar the rest with the same brush i.e. most MVPs are so because they are helpful so we must ignore it when we come across an MVP who responds only to ensure they remain an MVP or brandishes their status in a misguided attempt to remain superior.

Any system will be abused. As long as it is both minimally abused and obvious when it is then I can live with that.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1510113
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:37 AM
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I would have agreed until Microsoft removed their top level certification. Now for me at least, it seems like the MVP is the closest there is to a top level certification that truly means you are an expert at the technology. So if I wanted to have a credential that would guarantee me a job as a DBA any time I needed/wanted to change positions being a MVP would be the best credential available now.

Honestly even before they changed the certifications I thought of the MVP as providing this proof of competency as I was only peripherally aware of what went into getting a top level certification.
Post #1510174
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:49 AM


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krowley (10/31/2013)
Now for me at least, it seems like the MVP is the closest there is to a top level certification that truly means you are an expert at the technology.


Except it doesn't. MVP is not a certificate of technical competency. It says nothing at all about how much you know about the product. It certainly does not mean that the person is an expert.

So if I wanted to have a credential that would guarantee me a job as a DBA any time I needed/wanted to change positions being a MVP would be the best credential available now.


MVP is an award for community contributions. That's it. It shouldn't guarantee a DBA job any more than spending time at Toastmasters should. It's about how much you share with the community, not what technical level you're at. I often say it's an award to talking too much.



Gail Shaw
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Post #1510184
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:01 AM
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MVP is an award for community contributions. That's it. It shouldn't guarantee a DBA job any more than spending time at Toastmasters should. It's about how much you share with the community, not what technical level you're at. I often say it's an award to talking too much.


But you can't just "talk" off the top of your head and get this award. People have to find what you say valuable, which means you have to be providing "accurate" answers more often than not, etc... So it does at least imply a certain level of competency.

Besides which perception matters as much as anything in job hunting. If Microsoft thinks you are a Most Valuable Professional for the community then it would make sense to me as a hiring manager that you would be at the very least a valuable addition to my team.

The larger point is that some people WANTthere to be some shortcut way of telling who is an expert in a field. Because of this they will look for some simple way of designating some people as such, so no matter if you want it to or not (and regardless of the accuracy of the perception) MVP has a certain career value among a sub set of the population.
Post #1510190
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:02 AM
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Just to clarify, I am not actually a hiring manager, that was just an example. I am a lowly DBA whose company won't even give me that title for internal reasons.
Post #1510191
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:24 AM


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krowley (10/31/2013)
MVP is an award for community contributions. That's it. It shouldn't guarantee a DBA job any more than spending time at Toastmasters should. It's about how much you share with the community, not what technical level you're at. I often say it's an award to talking too much.


But you can't just "talk" off the top of your head and get this award. People have to find what you say valuable, which means you have to be providing "accurate" answers more often than not, etc... So it does at least imply a certain level of competency.


There are some SQL MVPs (no names given) that I wouldn't trust in the same building as my servers. There are a couple who just repeat what others say. You could in theory talk, blog, present a lot about basic select, insert, update and delete and get an MVP award. Doesn't mean you can admin a server or do complex development. Just means you talked a lot and helped a lot of people with the very very basic T-SQL statements.

Besides which perception matters as much as anything in job hunting. If Microsoft thinks you are a Most Valuable Professional for the community then it would make sense to me as a hiring manager that you would be at the very least a valuable addition to my team.


As a sales person or community contributor, sure. As an expert DBA, they might as well use that Toastmasters experience to judge technical competency.



Gail Shaw
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Post #1510207
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:39 AM
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You could in theory talk, blog, present a lot about basic select, insert, update and delete and get an MVP award. Doesn't mean you can admin a server or do complex development. Just means you talked a lot and helped a lot of people with the very very basic T-SQL statements.


Interesting, this is NOT the perception I at least have received about the MVP, maybe because all the MVPs I have read stuff from have seemed like experts in the field.

Sigh , I hate the whole job hunting process and was sort of hoping a short cut at least existed. Not that I would have been able to take it when it comes time for me to look for my next job, but at least it would have given me hope that there was a better way of finding a job out there.
Post #1510217
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:46 AM
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I have an opinion about MVPs that may annoy people if I am not careful. That said, if this doesn't come across correctly I will gladly edit it and try again. Oh, and apologize if I unintentionally offend anyone due to poor grammer or choice of words.

First, and most importantly, I feel that there are MVPs who have earned their status and who know what they are doing. I can't speak to percentages, but I am sure there are a lot of them who are very good. Those MVPs are NOT part of what I want to say. I will refer to this group as good MVPs.

Now, I think Steve has pointed out one of the reason that I have little respect for a lot of people with MVP or other letters attached to them. Those people who I do not respect are idiots. I will refer to these as idiot MVPs.

<rant>
Remember, good MVPs are NOT part of this, so hopefully the reader will understand that I am referring to those who do not deserve the title when I use the term idiots.

I think that one reason idiot MVPs are so bad is because their focus was on the title and not the knowledge. That (the focus) is kind of what I got out of Steve's post. Sometimes the focus is on how many posts they can make. Rarely do these people care about the quality of their posts, and often they don't even read the question thoroughly. I am sick and tired of trying to trouble shoot something, and having to waste time looking at "solutions" that are clearly wrong, have no basis at all, and frequently have nothing to do with the person's original question.

An example is a post on a Microsoft forum I looked at pertaining to the issue with Windows 8.1 not installing due to the use of an SSD for booting, and a standard hard drive for everything else. The solution given - reboot before trying to install. Seriously? I can excuse the "technical journalist" who claims the reason is people violated standard Windows installation rules, saying sysprep is not supported by Microsoft. He is just a journalist. But to see posts from Microsoft employees, and plenty of MVPs, claiming Windows does not support something that Windows supports is maddening.
</rant>

So, whether Steve is correct in his points or not, and I believe he is, I strongly agree that we should pursue knowledge and understanding. Titles, whether an MVP or any other "certification" don't carry much weight with me. I believe the members who post here fall into the "good" group. I think SSC is special due to the number of people who look to be truly helpful, rather than just getting an MVP title.


Dave
Post #1510223
Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:47 AM


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krowley (10/31/2013)
...was sort of hoping a short cut at least existed...


None that are worthwhile. Great rewards generally require great endeavour.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1510224
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