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The MCM Program is dead. Long live the MCMs! Expand / Collapse
Posted Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:15 PM
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L' Eomot Inversé (9/19/2013)
steve.fortner 92896 (9/19/2013)
I assume the culture in the UK is similar to the US then as far as college "requirements" for most tech jobs?

Not quite as firmly cast in concrete as in the US, but getting steadily more like it. I think we are much more likely over here to decide we don't care what the degree was in, though; but my view may be a bit out of date, because my first real computing job was a 6 week stint at RHEL way back in 1966 (in between degrees), and most of my experience of recruiting and of being recruited is somewhat out of date. I can definitely confirm that what Grant says applies in the UK, though - if you know someone on the inside who thinks you are worth having, you are more likely to get an interview if you get introduced through them than if you go through HR, and it's usually HR that has the silly rules about certificates, not the hiring managers. In fact over the decades HR departments and recruitment consultants have in general got worse over here and more jobs are getting taken through personal contacts.

Well, just so you guys know, I've seen numerous guys with even lead development roles that have degrees like journalism and the like. I knew a lead at Lexmark with no degree, but that team had some issues creating the first Markvision printer utility and he either moved to a different dept or quit or was possibly fired - not sure which and another up-and-coming young guy with a masters in computer engineering from the Univ of Louisville took over. He was cocky and confident - the replacement - but I believe he was a pretty good developer too though. Not sure if the "failure" of the initial lead was to blame or not. Most of the time initial projects have so much scope creep and unexpected things to come up due to poor planning that they're set up for failure. Clearly he was a lead because he had done some good things. One of the things I remember though was that he said more than once during post-mortem meetings and/or during conversations that he was just not confident the app was going to work, and even said he "had no idea" if it was bug free. There was just a general lack of confidence in it all, and he definitely communicated that a lot of people. He was honest, but that's not something management wants to hear. You could even call it complaining.

You guys have definitely reinforced the idea of the need for networking in finding jobs...
Post #1496640
Posted Friday, September 20, 2013 8:08 AM

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Grant Fritchey (9/19/2013)
TravisDBA (9/19/2013)
There is merit to what you say, but the hard cold reality today is most HR departments require the piece(s) of paper (college degrees, etc.) for technical positions. You don't get in the door without it. That's just the way it is. No exceptions. Particularly so in the government sector of any kind, but also in the private sector as well..

Which is why I would do everything in my power to always bypass the HR department.

It has been my experience that is not as easy to do nowadays. HR is directly involved in most hirings today. You just can't sneek that by them anymore. Pay is negotiable, agreed, lack of a degree or cert is not.. I know, it's a real paradox because most, if not all of the MS Certs, are virtually worthless IMHO anyway because it just too easy to braindump them. what can I say? It is what it is..

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
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