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The Loss of Trust Expand / Collapse
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Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 10:31 PM


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djackson 22568 (9/8/2013)
Jeff Moden (9/8/2013)
Robert Diggins (9/8/2013)
Sorry to hear you're too busy to think critically about the topic, or to be informed.


Nothing like a good ol' ad hominem attack to "prove" that the other guy is wrong.


Jeff, I see you post quite often, and never do I recall you being in any way negative. It makes me think maybe the NSA hacked your account to make it look like a legitimate person was against a legitimate argument.

SMILE


I appreciate the thoughtful response. Let's stop and think about what you've said though. Except for responding in kind to a certain author who makes such regular attacks, it's not my general nature (I am, however, human, and I may have slipped on occasion) to make ad hominem attacks even if I think the person deserves it. It's just not useful to the subject at hand unless the subject is the attack itself.

To wit, I've seen a great number of people on both sides of this NSA subject respond by attacking the person with an opinion rather than the problem itself. Tempers flare and the real problem ends up getting lost in a vicious circle of offense and counter offense. I'd like to see people stick to the subject instead of attacking each other's gene pool simply because someone disagrees.

Since SSC is my home away from home, I thought I'd try to put a stop to such attacks on this thread. I've obviously been unsuccessful in that attempt so I'll pop up some popcorn, peel back the top of a PBR, and watch the vicious circle continue.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1492655
Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:06 PM


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Jeff Moden (9/8/2013)
Since SSC is my home away from home, I thought I'd try to put a stop to such attacks on this thread. I've obviously been unsuccessful in that attempt so I'll pop up some popcorn, peel back the top of a PBR, and watch the vicious circle continue.

PBR? That is a totally crappy beer. At least do a Samuel Adams.




----------------
Jim P.

A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
Post #1492656
Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:16 PM


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Robert Diggins (9/8/2013)
Nothing like a good ol' ad hominem attack to "prove" that the other guy is wrong.


Did you read the person quoted as saying "too busy to be concerned with this" or not? I pointed it out because I thought it was important to note, before responding to the other points made, apparently without much consideration.

How would you evaluate his/her use of "conspiracy"? Was that used to denigrate the person/messenger? Did you miss that one?

Is your comment now simply ad hominem?


My apologies to you, Robert. I had an immediate respect for you because of the facts that you cited and the fact that you aren't hiding behind some handle. Rather, you're using your name. I guess I was taken back a bit to see such a thing from the highly intelligent person that responded so thoughtfully with facts in a prior post on this thread.

And, yes, you're correct. The other person used some rather uncomplimentary terms about groups of people that a person could take personally especially if they considered themselves to be a member of the group being blasted. I should have included them in my sorry attempt to stifle additional personal attacks and get back on subject.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1492657
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 12:21 AM
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I must try this thing you call P-B-R.

Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your response and admit that I could have done better and not have been so snarky.

I respect this site and forum immensely and am very grateful for it. Only wish that my comments here weren't limited to this NSA spying editorial. Been using since 6/6.5, but am humbled by the brains over here and mostly just listen.
Post #1492662
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 3:22 AM


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L' Eomot Inversé (9/8/2013)


That Guardian article gets one thing horribly wrong. The BBC didn't follow the public into acceptance of the destruction of our freedoms, it went over to supporting everything government did and suppressing as much as it dared of the controversy caused by outrageous legislation and the ever-increasing transfer of power from parliament to government as soon as Tony Blair entered no 10. It (together with newspaper media in the pockets of totalitarians, or believers that the security-related services could never do wrong) led the public into apathy and complacency, not followed it.

...

The whole left-right dichotomy is just a smoke-screen, with both main parties in the USA and all three main parties in the UK heading for the same totalitarian statist ideals in which the existing political establishment and those they favour will be the only ones who can get elected to any legislative body (we haven't quite got there yet over here, as evidenced by a small number of MPs who are prepared to disagree with their party leaders, but under the direction of our current politicians intelligence services we are certainly heading that way).


With somewhat heavy heart I cannot disagree.

Any good ideas to reverse what I would perceive as an anti-human totalitarian slide in our once proud and free countries? Anyone able to provide links to good articles on maintaining integrity?
Post #1492704
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 6:29 AM
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Steve Jones wrote that size does not matter. This misses a crucial point: government is force. Government has the exclusive privilege on legal use of force. Government is not like any "one" else.

If I steal your data, you may not legally come with a weapon and force me into your basement. The government can use a weapon and a prison against me.

Government is given the authority to use force to protect citizens from bad citizens. Who protects citizens from bad government?

What happens when the enforcer is a bully and misuses force?

Post #1492750
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 7:00 AM
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I doubt they have backdoors into our SQL Server instances


Based on the information made public so far, the documented behavior of the NSA in particular and governments (of all stripes) in general, I think your attitude has little to recommend it. On the contrary, it is instead highly likely that they did not overlook SQL Server (or Oracle, or any other db platform) as an important source of information that needed to be accessed. It is highly likely that they indeed do have backdoors into our databases.



Post #1492758
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 7:02 AM
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Stephen Frick (9/9/2013)
Steve Jones wrote that size does not matter. This misses a crucial point: government is force. Government has the exclusive privilege on legal use of force. Government is not like any "one" else.

If I steal your data, you may not legally come with a weapon and force me into your basement. The government can use a weapon and a prison against me.

Government is given the authority to use force to protect citizens from bad citizens. Who protects citizens from bad government?

What happens when the enforcer is a bully and misuses force?



Then you exercise your vote and vote your member of congress out if you feel they do not redress your concerns.
Post #1492760
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 7:17 AM
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Replacing legislators is part of the system

The core of the system is the U.S. Constitution, not what 51% of the legislators want. The 51% cannot override the Constitution. The standard for Constitutional amendments is much higher than 51%.

One person's willingness to give up their privacy rights does not void another person's unwillingness to give up their Constitutional rights.

Get a court order to search and seize, or amend the Constitution. Obey the Constitution. The Constitution has methods for being amended.
Post #1492767
Posted Monday, September 9, 2013 7:27 AM
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Couple of points that are worth clarification.

The term backdoor, to me at least, describes adding a hidden feature to software code to allow you access at root level. From all accounts this is not how the offensive capability of the NSA works.

The offensive capability of the NSA and the separate group responsible for cyber-warfare relies on having the actual code of the program and looking for weaknesses that they can write targeted exploits for. Additionally the black budget outlined that they set aside money to purchase zero day exploits on the underground market for code.

Secondly anti-virus is a joke. Nothing needs to be done to hide yourself from Symantec or any other vendor that relies on heuristic scans to detect new problems. Have yet to attend a Tech-Ed security session where any of the presenters were using it, bc of its limitations. However Microsoft's EMET is a decent next generation protection tool, that some are using as it looks to stop the method of attack not the payload of the attack after the fact.

Another point to make is that the NSA does not share RAW data with other groups. No RAW data ever leaves the NSA, this has always been true since inception of organization and was done to limit the damage of moles from other intelligence groups. The Snowden leak not withstanding.

You do need encryption for your business data, but the group you need to be wary of is China and Russia. They have a long history of economic espionage for their state owned industries.

Lastly, the network component that NSA is most likely to target is your switch. Going after the core switch is the biggest bang for the buck, instead of piecemeal attacks on individual servers or components.




Post #1492775
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