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Posted Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Developer Pressure






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Post #1492029
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 1:26 AM
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Continuous integration is a no-brainer. JFDI.

Continuous deployment makes me nervous from a DBA perspective.

If a deployment means a change to a big table and replication is involved then it gives me the screaming willies.

Where there are small changes to the DB I'm much less worried. It all depends on what the change might be and therein lies the rub.

There is also consideration for the data rollback strategy.

How does a team of developers decide where on the spectrum of worry the deployment will put the DBA?

Ideally I'd like to be able to support continuous delivery with the caveats mentioned earlier.

I don't think a Continuous Delivery for non-data deployments is conducive to a good developer/DBA relationship. No matter how legitemate DBAs will be seen as blockers not guardians.

In terms of non-DB developers continous delivery eliminates a layer of bureaucracy. Frankly the traditional release process is stressful. I've seen a project manager in tears when facing a remedial release. Sometimes project managers need a hug


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Post #1492065
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 3:52 AM
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While I understand the other potential problems, in general I'm all for CI/CD. I find it so annoying to have to re-visit and re-familiarise with something that was 'finished' 2 or 3 months ago because of the delays due to build/test/release schedules.
Post #1492131
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 5:58 AM
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It depends on how intermingled the changes are. If the applications are siloed, you can go fast.
If they depend on or update each other, it needs more than simple automated testing.
A developer makes a simple change that works for itself, but some other application that has not been changed, gets broken. Or worse 2 developers make changes that go in opposite directions.
That said, having long cycles that leave trivial updates waiting for months is not acceptable.
"FigThing Irish" on the web site should not wait for next annual refresh.


Post #1492177
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 5:59 AM


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We also use Deployment Manger for our software...

Ha! Couldn't help it. You have Development Manager in the email. Might want to fix the typo on the web.


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Post #1492179
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 6:44 AM
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I'm all for CI. We're trying to crack that nut in a complex system with many moving parts. One thing you mentioned is that customers may expect new features sooner or faster. A concern I have, that isn't necessarily from CI, is if people start expecting things to happen faster then these new features aren't as well thought out and planned. CI doesn't preclude the need for business planning and development planning. So, I like the tool for the benefits it can give while keeping an eye on the actually solutions to the business needs.


Post #1492198
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 7:38 AM
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Kind of a mixed situation. Probably helpful for in house applications.

For published apps, though, it can be a support nightmare. People are concerned about Android's fragmentation, but with each custiomer potentially having a different 'version' depending on their last install/update....


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Post #1492235
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 7:46 AM


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Grant Fritchey (9/6/2013)
We also use Deployment Manger for our software...

Ha! Couldn't help it. You have Development Manager in the email. Might want to fix the typo on the web.


Arrgghhh, fixed. I think I mixed up the terms in the recording as well.







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Post #1492242
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 8:24 AM
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I'm all for CI/CD because they build development departments that have a functional and well understood deployment process--and a functional and well understood rollback process for the occasional oops. This, in the end, reduces stress because you have good testing processes for releases and everyone has 'been there, done that' regularly so any given release is not such a big deal.

That said, getting any group to that point is stressful. Building the necessary testing and rollback process as well as getting the wider community of users, testers, SMEs, etc. all folded into the process properly takes time and inevitably involves a few painful experiences. It is best accomplished at a modest pace and with a good sense of humor. The benefit of traversing this painful phase can be huge, though.

Case in point, I'm on a contract where my work from almost a year ago has not been implemented--largely because everyone here is terrified of touching production, aka the production house of cards. Of course, by now it is very hard to remember exactly what the changes are or how best to implement them due to the impact of any other changes that may have transpired since I wrote the migration scripts. There will need to be a big 're-learning' curve before this work can migrate beyond Dev. In the end, this re-scripting and re-testing is wasted work and a useless delay.
Post #1492274
Posted Friday, September 06, 2013 2:32 PM
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Does it require more from the developer? Yes! Is there more stress? Yes. Does the developer get paid more for more work? No! Does the company have to hire more skilled people to develop? Yes. Is that really going to happen and this is going to work? I'll leave that up to you to answer.

We have to remember the conversation about You can have things fast good or cheap but you have to pick just two. You do not get all three. That isn't going to happen. So this rapid development and deployment technique requires the code to be developed fast, and the user requires that it be good or excellent.

So Fast + Good/Excellent = Expensive.

Now management and the company shareholders want things cheap. This helps build a better bottom line. So their approach is to make it Fast and Cheap. And Fast + Cheap = Inferior.

So where does that leave us. Hard question on a Friday!


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