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Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:05 AM
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Jim P. (8/28/2013)
But a team member male or female that deforms, distorts, or destroys the team is worthless regardless of sex.


I would agree with this statement for the most part, but with one qualification. My personal belief (borne out by my experience to date) is that with rare exception, when "a team member...deforms, distorts, or destroys the team", I see that as a failure of (and the responsibility of) the team's management.

Yes, there are cases where a person's attitude or behavior is simply inappropriate to the team, and yes, there are cases where a given individual is so incapable of working in a team setting that they shouldn't be hired. Outside of those cases, though, I think it's the job of the manager to create that cohesiveness, and to ensure that her/his team functions together effectively. If bringing a new person into a team destroys the team, that's a sign to me that the team isn't being managed effectively.

The reality is that part of being a professional, at least to me, is learning to work with the people you have to work with, and learning to manage conflicts when they arise. And part of being a manager, at least to me, is fostering an environment among and within teams where that can happen. If a new person can be allowed to destroy a team, I see that as a failure of the whole team, and of the team's manager, and not as the sole fault of the new person.

But, back to the original topic, I see that as being true in ANY team, regardless of the gender, race, religion, or other characteristics of the individual team members.

Tammy
Post #1489768
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:22 AM


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chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.


"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
Post #1489773
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:37 AM
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TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.


Travis - Yes, we do not have all the facts, and we do not have the context. But we have one persons honest reaction. I trust Steve would not have twisted nor distorted this to make a point out of thin air. What we have in both Steve's interpretation and reaction to some comments that appeared to be way off. And in reality I believe that what Steve heard was a sexist remark. And that he was accurate in his recollection.

That said, a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.


Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
Post #1489779
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:42 AM


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Dalkeith (8/29/2013)
Oh boy - flat earthers still exist.

Just like there are still folks who can't get around anything but a flat data model.


ATB

Charles Kincaid

Post #1489782
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:52 AM


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Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.


...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.


Miles,

and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't asume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true.


"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
Post #1489783
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:55 AM


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Charles Kincaid (8/29/2013)
Dalkeith (8/29/2013)
Oh boy - flat earthers still exist.

Just like there are still folks who can't get around anything but a flat data model.


Yes and I keep reading articles saying that the flat data model is making a come back.

Remain vigilant everyone
Post #1489784
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:00 AM
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TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.


...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.


Miles,

and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't assume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true.


I agree that is probably not my place nor yours. But if Steve did hear it and this is in fact what he heard, he does have the opportunity to say something, and probably should. After reading the comments on this board, I hope he does.



Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
Post #1489786
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:02 AM


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I highly doubt he does, he has pretty much said he wouldn't in this thread already.

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
Post #1489787
Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:29 PM


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TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,
I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.


...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.


...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.


Miles,

and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't asume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true.


It was hearsay for me, too. That's why I haven't pursued things further.







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Post #1489836
Posted Friday, August 30, 2013 10:44 AM
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Vera-428803 (8/28/2013)

I sometimes speak at schools ...
Most girls are scared because of the technical aspect of the job


Read that again and tell me that it doesn't sound sexist.


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