Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 
 
        
Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On


Add to briefcase «««1213141516»»

A New Look Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:14 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:13 PM
Points: 33,100, Visits: 15,210
Jeff Moden (7/31/2013)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/31/2013)
Not true. Different people, different skills sets here. If the people changing the look could code, I'd have a lot of stuff fixed.


Ah... I understand the dilema.

Are there any plans to fix any of the things I mentioned or maybe bring in that "new forum" software you had us take a look at a while back?


Lots of plans. Time? No idea. I'd like to say these are top priority, but they aren't because they are substantial in terms of work.

Those items are annoyances for me, and I use them almost every day.







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1479714
Posted Thursday, August 1, 2013 2:06 AM
SSCommitted

SSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommitted

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 9:07 AM
Points: 1,714, Visits: 6,259
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/31/2013)
Our changes here were to try and get a cleaner, less cluttered look.


I can understand that. It's a shame therefore that the newsletter changes have precisely the opposite effect. The same amount of information (apart from the useful 'yesterday's question') is squeezed into half the width, with the result that it's a lot more cluttered.
Post #1479826
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 10:44 AM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:13 PM
Points: 33,100, Visits: 15,210
Toreador (8/1/2013)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/31/2013)
Our changes here were to try and get a cleaner, less cluttered look.


I can understand that. It's a shame therefore that the newsletter changes have precisely the opposite effect. The same amount of information (apart from the useful 'yesterday's question') is squeezed into half the width, with the result that it's a lot more cluttered.


We're in disagreement here. I think it is cleaner, and it's not squeezed into half the space. It's narrower, but it's spread out. That's less cluttered at any point on the screen. However it's more work and can be annoying.

Point taken, and I'm disputing that it is annoying or displeasing to you and others, but it's also design. There's no right or wrong here. there are lots of people that do like the new look, especially those using mail on devices, which is a lot of users.








Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1480520
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 10:56 AM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:13 PM
Points: 33,100, Visits: 15,210
I'm not closing this thread, but I'll be responding less here.

I plan to write some pieces across the next week or so that will address specific design changes and proposals, to solicit comments from the community. Please respond in individual threads.

I've also started to put announcements in this thread. One change made yesterday: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1480523-83-1.aspx







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1480526
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 11:15 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 1:01 PM
Points: 141, Visits: 1,740
I like having an option of getting a newsletter optimized for the different devices. It would seem worthwhile to consider delivery of the newsletter that way.
Post #1480536
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 1:46 PM


SSCrazy Eights

SSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy Eights

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 4:08 PM
Points: 8,573, Visits: 9,081
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/2/2013)
We're in disagreement here. I think it is cleaner, and it's not squeezed into half the space. It's narrower, but it's spread out. That's less cluttered at any point on the screen. However it's more work and can be annoying.

Trouble is that perception of clutter works for some people by contrast; that narrow (and ergonomically ridiculous) strip down the middle of a blank screen looks like a river of clutter on an otherwise uncluttered (because absolutely blank) background.

Point taken, and I'm disputing that it is annoying or displeasing to you and others, but it's also design. There's no right or wrong here. there are lots of people that do like the new look, especially those using mail on devices, which is a lot of users.

Isn't a laptop a "device" any more? Surely you should say "shirt pocket size devices" if that's what you mean?

Surely it would be possible to make it adjust to the width of the window in which it is being viewed? Almost all the email I receive does that, but not the SQL Server Central daily missive. Web pages have been doing that since very early days of the web (many of the websites that I used quite a while before I left ICL 17 years and a few months ago did that, even more have done recently, and it's the norm for email whether in plain-text or in html format (or even in MS Word doc or xdoc format, in fact). It seems utterly unreasonable to present those who use a notebook or a laptop or a desktop or a docking station with a wide-screen monitor for reading their email with a format which makes ergonomic nonsense for their devices, unless of course you are trying to persuade us not to read the newsletter any more.

edit: incidentally, straightforward HTML, like plain text which uses line breaks for only paragraph separation, is are naturally self-adjusting for window width; it's actually harder to make html which does not adapt to window width than html that does, which makes it seem even stranger that you've chosen to do that. The same applies to doc and to docx, using the appropriate view (web layout view in docx, can't remember what it was called in old versions of word which used doc format)


Tom
Post #1480591
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 3:13 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:13 PM
Points: 33,100, Visits: 15,210
L' Eomot Inversé (8/2/2013)

Isn't a laptop a "device" any more? Surely you should say "shirt pocket size devices" if that's what you mean?



Phones and tablets, which aren't shirt sized. At least not my shirt pockets.

If you look at many newsletters, they are fixed size. The more I've studied this, the more I notice it. Not that it's right, but that's what it is.

In terms of straight HTML, you are limited in what you can do, and a lot of the issue has been that things which look great, flow, and work well in almost every client, fail in Outlook. Thanks, MS, for building a standard piece of software that many use, which doesn't support standards.

I'll discuss some of this moving forward.







Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1480625
Posted Friday, August 2, 2013 4:30 PM
SSC Veteran

SSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC Veteran

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, June 26, 2014 7:28 AM
Points: 257, Visits: 902
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/2/2013)


If you look at many newsletters, they are fixed size. The more I've studied this, the more I notice it. Not that it's right, but that's what it is.

In terms of straight HTML, you are limited in what you can do, and a lot of the issue has been that things which look great, flow, and work well in almost every client, fail in Outlook. Thanks, MS, for building a standard piece of software that many use, which doesn't support standards.

I'll discuss some of this moving forward.


We talked about these difficulties in the thread about emailing query results.

It's also difficult to design templates that are merged on-demand with variable length articles to be "good looking" in a single browser, much less across the many versions of webmail client/outlook (+versions)/mobile "device"/etc.

I see newsletters being hand-crafted through a GUI which is very expensive time/labor
I see photoshop slicing into tables with minimal call-to-action links (also expensive, but for a different kind of laborer)

I see "view this in a real browser" link as 'graceful' fallback to a quality presentation.

If you are going to merge templates with recent articles (grabbed from your blog, etc.) then you have a very narrow constraint on what might have any hope of looking passable across the audience capability landscape.

If would be nice if the multipart nature of text+html email could include targeting for clients/devices the way CSS/stylesheets target media types. Until then (or similar), it's lowest common denominator for email rendering capability.

My earlier suggestion to allow a template chooser under account configuration would likely solve this problem for a majority of use-cases (users preferences) but the maintenance hassle that opens may be well beyond the work you are willing to accept. It also wouldn't allow users to have optimal experience across their multiple viewing platforms.

Clearly it's a non-trivial problem; made more difficult by involvement of "personal preferences"
Post #1480642
Posted Saturday, August 3, 2013 12:08 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 1:01 PM
Points: 141, Visits: 1,740
I get a fair amount of email that starts with the header, if you would like to read this message on the web, click here, at the top?

Would archiving the messages to the site work any better?
Post #1480668
Posted Saturday, August 3, 2013 3:01 PM


SSC-Dedicated

SSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-DedicatedSSC-Dedicated

Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:13 PM
Points: 33,100, Visits: 15,210
I've got some pieces coming. Let's move ideas and discussion to the appropriate places.






Follow me on Twitter: @way0utwest

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1480727
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase «««1213141516»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse