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Posted Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:14 AM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Trust






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Post #1463882
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 7:06 AM


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For too long we have rolled out the young/immature industry arguments. We must stop because quite simply: we know better.

A lot of these industries which have compliance, regulatory and professional frameworks started before we had an understanding that we needed these things. There were no examples for a long time then there was no understanding that the same frameworks were required for other industries. We have never been at that point in IT and for about half a century (in UK and USA at least) we should have been rolling out such things.

The UK has the British Computer Society but that only regulates its members and as membership is not a requirement it can be considered toothless from an industry perspective (although I am sure it does add value for its membership). There is also, to my understanding, other bodies in a similar situation e.g. IEE, ACM and IEEE.


Gaz

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Post #1464127
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 8:22 AM


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I look at it as less that there is an immaturity to IT, but that IT isn't normally the focus of the business. As a DBA or sys admin we can work for essentially any industry and it isn't the IT types that don't follow rules, in general. The IT types are told these are rules for the industry, get the servers and SW to comply with those rules.

I can do an installation of PeopleSoft Accounting or Great Plains and maintain it. But the accountants and clerks embezzling the money or cooking the books is not the IT guy. My last company, we had an accountant that was embezzling using wire transfers via an external company's software. He would pulling the paper that was signed that it had been done. So then it never hit the accounting software. They asked IT if we could prevent it happening again. There was no way without a big expense to get electronic reporting from the external company. Management said no. It was not our choice.

That is what happened with Enron and several other scandals. It's not necessarily the IT, it's the management.





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Post #1464169
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 8:48 AM


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Gary Varga (6/17/2013)
For too long we have rolled out the young/immature industry arguments. We must stop because quite simply: we know better.

A lot of these industries which have compliance, regulatory and professional frameworks started before we had an understanding that we needed these things. There were no examples for a long time then there was no understanding that the same frameworks were required for other industries. We have never been at that point in IT and for about half a century (in UK and USA at least) we should have been rolling out such things.

The UK has the British Computer Society but that only regulates its members and as membership is not a requirement it can be considered toothless from an industry perspective (although I am sure it does add value for its membership). There is also, to my understanding, other bodies in a similar situation e.g. IEE, ACM and IEEE.


But we are immature. Even thought we've been doing this for decades, we run as an unregulated, seat of the pants industry, with little standardization or adherence to practices.








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Post #1464190
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 9:25 AM
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In "our" industry we have code/process that do everything from keeping track of the number of labels purchased and used (not even close to life and death) to running a pacemaker. Why would you want to have high standards for the label purchasing program? Yet the pacemaker of course is as important as it gets. There is probably no value in regulating the label purchasing programmer yet the pacemaker one seems worthy. It's all about value.
Post #1464210
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 9:59 AM


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Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/17/2013)

But we are immature. Even thought we've been doing this for decades, we run as an unregulated, seat of the pants industry, with little standardization or adherence to practices.



My point is that we act immaturely and blame it on industry youth; it is an excuse, no longer a reason. We have been using the same excuse for decades with no-one driving change. This would have to either be government driven or become a commercial defacto standard. I don't particularly want it but feel that the industry needs it.


Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1464234
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:13 AM


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We blame it on youth and immaturity, but that's a lot of it. There are driving reasons for this, and I agree with you they don't make sense, but I'm not sure how we change things.

We use lots of young people, who by definition, don't have experience. We let them run their own processes and standards, because for the most part, those things are effective. They work and produce results. The value from those results often outweighs the need for training and experience to be used, often even if the systems are redone three or four times. It's just not that often it's worth it.

Add to the fact that the "older" generations that have processes and standards are slow to adapt to news ways of doing things, and I'm not surprised that we just let things run wild. It makes dollar sense, especially in the short term.







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Post #1464249
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 10:21 AM


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I find that not always to be the case. Some people could use some decent processes and a little control. I guess it depends on the scenario. More so on the value in the given scenario.

Gaz

-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
Post #1464263
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 2:40 PM
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Just because other industries have evolved codes of conduct doesn't mean they alway abide by them.

I agree with the statement "sometimes I think it's just an illusion of more standards and practices" with an emphasis on the word sometimes.

Having said that doesn't negate the need for codes of conduct, standards, etc.
Post #1464378
Posted Monday, June 17, 2013 2:54 PM


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I find that those professional rules/code of conduct are often not lived up to with little or no repercussions and therefore arguing that they provide something more than symbolic value is hard for me to swallow. Lets be real, in most cases you have to violate them pretty egregiously before any action is taken.

Even in our industry there are segments that have stiff rules of compliance such as for the medical device industry. Having to "reboot" a pacemaker isn't going to be acceptable in almost any case. Or having an infusion pump go crazy and dump a whole bag of morphine into a patient isn't acceptable. So the IT side of these industries are much more highly scrutinized than others.

Trust is hard to quantify, you assign a person you just met a certain value of trust and the value goes up or down depending on their actions. There are people I just met that I trust more than some I have known for decades because I KNOW I can't trust that other person through their actions.

DBAs are a particularly tricky aspect because we have access to virtually everything and usually right away. So I think we need to be especially careful about our actions.

CEWII


(fixed spelling error in edit)
Post #1464386
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