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The Patch Wild, Wild West Expand / Collapse
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Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:41 PM


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Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Patch Wild, Wild West






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Post #1443096
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:36 AM


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Ugh. I see that as a big step backwards. The ability to rollback is a huge necessity. I much prefer the current system.



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Post #1443112
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 5:09 AM
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A rollback procedure for iOS would be nice, as there have been a few occasions where an update has introduced a bug that requires a new update immediately.
Post #1443189
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 6:47 AM
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As for SQL Server running only on a Microsoft platform, I can understand it. It is much easier for MS to maintain SQL Server. But, you have to use a MS platform. Now with Oracle, it can get a version that will run on different platforms, basically either a MS-Windows platform or a UNIX/Linux platform. It would be nice to have SQL Server on Linux but I don't see that happening. SQL Server development is how I make my money. Automatic updates are how I could lose (more of) my hair. Hopefully MS will keep their Server systems away from the Windows 8 update process.
Post #1443231
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 8:05 AM


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iOS devices being almost entirely consumer oriented, it makes sense in that environment to automate the process and make it as "easy" as possible, at the cost of control. If Microsoft goes down this route, it's only a matter of time before enough corporate customers complain and force them to address the issue. I'll wait until then to adopt Windows 8 and its server cousins.

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Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 8:24 AM
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hakim.ali (4/17/2013)
iOS devices being almost entirely consumer oriented, it makes sense in that environment to automate the process and make it as "easy" as possible, at the cost of control. If Microsoft goes down this route, it's only a matter of time before enough corporate customers complain and force them to address the issue. I'll wait until then to adopt Windows 8 and its server cousins.


I agree with this. The iOS style of updates makes sense for consumer devices but not in an enterprise business environment. All things are more tightly controlled in an enterprise environment. It would be bad for Microsoft to do this for enterprise servers and environments.
Post #1443297
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:37 AM
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I think the sensible thing for Microsoft to do is branch their Windows OS product along business and consumer lines (leverage where they can), otherwise they risk losses in both customer bases.
Post #1443379
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:45 AM
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hakim.ali (4/17/2013)
iOS devices being almost entirely consumer oriented, it makes sense in that environment to automate the process and make it as "easy" as possible, at the cost of control. If Microsoft goes down this route, it's only a matter of time before enough corporate customers complain and force them to address the issue. I'll wait until then to adopt Windows 8 and its server cousins.


I think that's one thing that is actually somewhat strong about the app-store/marketplace update model - the updates are done by the different companies. If they decide to push too many new updates that break functionality, they'll find themselves without a customer base to keep doing that. Yes, I'd love a "rollback" feature in those stores, but at the same time it's up to the developers to satisfy their customers so I can support that. It's definitely targeted at consumers.

I don't see MS going this route for their major server products. They may bundle it in to Windows Update, but I can't see it going the way of the marketplace apps where you just get an update with no option to remove/rollback. That would break too many big customers and MS would find themselves in the position of losing customers rather than retaining them. I can see them doing it for the Modern/Metro apps as they aren't core to the OS functioning, though some may be useful. I can't see them doing this for server or OS level patches. Even their Surface RT patches for the OS and firmware go through Windows Update. Modern apps are updated through the store and I haven't seen too many major problems there (with the exception of one app introducing ads to their free version, which resulted in a bunch of negative feedback :) ).



Post #1443382
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:59 AM


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Peter Schott (4/17/2013)


I think that's one thing that is actually somewhat strong about the app-store/marketplace update model - the updates are done by the different companies. If they decide to push too many new updates that break functionality, they'll find themselves without a customer base to keep doing that. Yes, I'd love a "rollback" feature in those stores, but at the same time it's up to the developers to satisfy their customers so I can support that. It's definitely targeted at consumers.

I hear you, but there's an issue here. If you've purchased a service, breaking the service with a patch is an issue and there's little you can do, despite the contract that has been made with you. The ability to roll back one version would make sense here.


I don't see MS going this route for their major server products. They may bundle it in to Windows Update, but I can't see it going the way of the marketplace apps where you just get an update with no option to remove/rollback. That would break too many big customers and MS would find themselves in the position of losing customers rather than retaining them. I can see them doing it for the Modern/Metro apps as they aren't core to the OS functioning, though some may be useful. I can't see them doing this for server or OS level patches. Even their Surface RT patches for the OS and firmware go through Windows Update. Modern apps are updated through the store and I haven't seen too many major problems there (with the exception of one app introducing ads to their free version, which resulted in a bunch of negative feedback :) ).


You'd think, but just this week we had Win 7 issues with patches (onsoftware.en.softonic.com/microsoft-recommends-uninstalling-faulty-windows-7-patch). This will happen with Win 8, WS2012, etc. Deliver enough patches and you'll make mistakes.

Right now there are multiple ways to update machines in Win 8. Windows Update, the Store, and maybe others. Right now there hasn't been a lot of consistency as MS tries to move from the desktop to a more Metro, cleaner style. I like the direction, but it appears to be done in Win 8 inconsistently. I worry that may carry through to the patching processes.







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Post #1443388
Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:18 AM
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I actually agree with your first point about me purchasing a service that could then be broken by a developer releasing an update. It's happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Most of the time this is for an app, not an OS. I can complain to the developer and if enough people join me, it's possible that the app will be rolled back or re-updated. Sometimes the breaking change is part of a larger change to make things better. Sometimes it's a mistake. I would love a rollback feature somehow, but not sure how to implement. That does remind me of the Adobe Reader mess for WP7 a while back. They'd finally released a nice update to the PDF reader app, then somehow the version in the store showed an "update" that rolled back to the original version - losing all of the nice enhancements in the process. It was made right a couple of weeks later, but very frustrating to those of us who didn't check the version properly and just hit "update" on it.

As for the Win8 process, I see that broken cleanly into two separate updates. One goes through the "Store" process - this affects the Modern apps, including the "core" apps like Mail, Calendar, Maps, etc. They're just apps and can be uninstalled or reinstalled. The second is your standard Windows Update - OS patches, drivers, and so on. I'm pretty sure I can uninstall one of the latter if it gives me fits. I cannot revert a Store update (or at least not without some hacking beforehand to make a backup copy and hoping I know what I'm doing). I just don't see the two mixing because they serve slightly different purposes. One is mostly handled by the developers (with MS as an intermediary before publishing the new version). The other is MS directly pushing OS-level updates and the like. Office for the Surface is a little bit of an outlier here because it's a desktop app, not a Modern app so can't be updated through the Store.

I agree that patches can be released that cause damage, but if it's an OS-level update, that can still be reverted. I also agree that being able to roll back a Store update would be a "nice to have" feature, regardless of platform. I guess Android is the closest to this because all apps can come in an APK format and those can be backed up. You can then reinstall from an older APK if needed. iOS and Win8 don't support something similar to my knowledge.



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