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Unprofessional Employers Expand / Collapse
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 9:08 AM



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David.Poole (10/19/2012)
CFO "what happens if we pay for training and they leave"?
CTO "what happens if we don't pay and they stay"?

What happens if Joe our top performer wants this training and we don't pay? Don't be surprised if you lose him/her.

Jason AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
I have given a name to my pain...
MCM SQL Server


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Post #1374878
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 9:25 AM


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I've worked elsewhere - training was given to those who had already proved themselves or "well liked". It was a "reward". My next company said you need this skill - go take this class. This is the type of company I like to join. My current employer is one of those.
My employer has everyone write an "Individual Development Plan" (IDP). The format is: what you want to develop; what steps will you take; how will you know you achieved/made progress in development. It can include Work/Life Balance. This is for IT, managers and front line staff. There is in-house training (PMI, etc.), blended learning program (one targets managers), and tuition reimbursement (if job related.) I believe 1 to 2 hours a week can be arranged for external training within business hours. Yes, my employer paid for the courses and certificate of one of the the MS Certificates a few years ago. I mentioned to my new manager that I had gone to code camp. She asked what it is and told me to add it to my IDP.
Post #1374890
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 9:27 AM


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My employer will pay for training, books, encourages me to research online, and gather information wherever I can. I cannot complain.


Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
Post #1374891
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 10:00 AM


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Hm. My current employer would probably not be considered professional by these metrics, indeed . I entered this job as a SQL Server developer/admin, but for the first four months, I worked only with Microsoft Access... They actually were planning to move to SQL Server, but those plans were put off for a good while. So, I had plenty of learning to do to learn about operating Microsoft Access and Visual Basic to figure out how to program for them, which came out of my time and time at work (since I could at least do a little research here and there while at work to figure out how to solve problems).

Then they wanted to have integration with various web APIs , and that required some knowledge of C# and PowerShell, so I had to study up on those in much the same manner. They also removed the networking admin they had working here before I arrived from his duties and committed him to working in the warehouse full-time, because I was younger, and as the ideology here goes, younger people know more about computers, so I was better-suited to administering Active Directory and other network tasks (which I had no idea how to do, so more research for me!). The general mindset here is that programming is easy enough to learn, so it shouldn't take too long to learn a new language if you need to get something done. If only it were that simple

My journal of things I'm learning about SQL
Post #1374901
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 10:14 AM
Mr or Mrs. 500

Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500Mr or Mrs. 500

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My current company (15 years at the same place!) has gone back and forth on this over the years. I recall one employee who took advantage of the tuition reimbursement policy to get his masters, and then left six months later to pursue other endeavors in IT. The reimbursement policy was changed after that to delayed reimbursement over time. Could have been worse; I've also worked at another company where the same thing happened and they just killed the reimbursement program.

Over the past 3 to 4 years we've been able to justify various types of training and have the company pay for it; I recently took a webinar on automated QA testing and software to support it, courtesy of a new manager. I made the case for it, detailed out the reasons why I thought it would be helpful, and they agreed it was a good investment. They'll reap the benefits of it over time and it will save them a lot more than they paid.

I think that's my main point of disagreement with Uncle Bob. While I agree professionals are and should be responsible for maintaining their expertise, I disagree that the entire cost of that should be borne by them. Otherwise the company gains a benefit they didn't pay for, and typically you don't get an increase in salary just because you went out and got additional training. So in essence the individual ends up paying for a company benefit - and that's just plain wrong. That would the same as me saying "Hey, Toyota, you came out with a new updated version of the Corrola; you need to give me a new improved one in place of my old one - straight across trade."

I buy my own books ( I LOVE books). I pay for some of my own training, and have been known to take a day off to attend free training locally. My company has also paid for specific training they wanted me to gain skills in, and has allowed me to attend free training locally on company time. I'm currently paying for a "personal improvement" class that will be ongoing for the next several month; it will likely benefit the company as a side effect, I just feel its not something they should pay for. All of these things work for me, and benefit my employer. I'd consider that a "win-win".

P.S. I would never trade in my Corolla station wagon. It's 22 years old, and still gets 36 mpg city / 40 mpg highway. I'd have to go hybrid to beat that, and right now I have other goals for my disposable income.

Here there be dragons...,

Steph Brown
Post #1374904
Posted Friday, October 19, 2012 1:46 PM

Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

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SQLRNNR (10/19/2012)
David.Poole (10/19/2012)
CFO "what happens if we pay for training and they leave"?
CTO "what happens if we don't pay and they stay"?

What happens if Joe our top performer wants this training and we don't pay? Don't be surprised if you lose him/her.

Unfortunately today, many companies just don't care. With the rampant unemployment situation the way it is, many of them can get away with not doing this, including not giving raises. Their comeback is simple. "Just be glad you have a job today, lots of people out there waiting for your job". That is why a bad economy affects this kind of stuff so much. It gives employers an "out" to take advantage and not invest in their employees, and stick the difference in their pockets. In the end, it's all about corporate greed.

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ..."
Post #1375026
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