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Ridiculous
68 posts, Page 1 of 7
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Steve Jones - SSC Editor
Steve Jones - SSC Editor
Posted Monday, September 03, 2012 9:50 PM
SSC-Dedicated
Group: Administrators
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:20 AM
Points: 31,437,
Visits: 13,752
Comments posted to this topic are about the item
Ridiculous
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Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Post #1353693
mtucker-732014
mtucker-732014
Posted Monday, September 03, 2012 10:38 PM
SSC Journeyman
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:07 PM
Points: 90,
Visits: 282
I havent been to a Defcon so cant speak from first hand experience.
Neither apparently can Valerie.
I read her article and she has plenty of second and third hand stories of harrassment but none of her own. She says nothing quite as bad happened to her, but what exactly did happen to her? No detail, not very compelling - maybe she just has a grudge and wants to bad mouth the whole thing.
Post #1353703
MissTippsInOz
MissTippsInOz
Posted Monday, September 03, 2012 11:18 PM
SSC Veteran
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:43 PM
Points: 286,
Visits: 520
mtucker-732014 (9/3/2012)
I havent been to a Defcon so cant speak from first hand experience.
Neither apparently can Valerie.
I read her article and she has plenty of second and third hand stories of harrassment but none of her own. She says nothing quite as bad happened to her, but what exactly did happen to her? No detail, not very compelling - maybe she just has a grudge and wants to bad mouth the whole thing.
Wow!! That's fairly damning in it's turn! Are you saying that someone 'close' to a topic is not entitled to report on it? Are you, perhaps, suggesting that none of the allegations are true? Since you've never attended DefCon and aren't providing any evidence to corroborate your 'shoot from the hip' supposition; I have to say you're on considerably shakier ground than Valerie!
Clare
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Measure twice; cut once (and have a good saw)
Hey, just a thought.....did you check Books Online yet?
Post #1353707
mtucker-732014
mtucker-732014
Posted Monday, September 03, 2012 11:34 PM
SSC Journeyman
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:07 PM
Points: 90,
Visits: 282
I dont need to have been to Defcon to write about an article that someone has written. My evidence is Valerie's article, which as you can see if you read it, contains only references to things that might have happened to unnamed people which she heard about second hand.
Post #1353711
MissTippsInOz
MissTippsInOz
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 12:01 AM
SSC Veteran
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:43 PM
Points: 286,
Visits: 520
I'm not even sure why you bothered to comment on this thread in the first place. Valerie's article was written in her capacity as founder of the Ada Initiative, bringing together a number of experiences in order to highlight an ongoing issue; that of
some
women enduring harrassment in
some
male dominated environments.
I don't believe that she sought to do anything else; she wasn't trying to make herself a victim or even, as far as I can see, to dramatise it. I can neither confirm nor deny that this kind of thing happens at DefCon as I've never had the opportunity to go either. It seems such a stretch, though, for you to come to the conclusion that she must have a grudge in order to write this article. A grudge against whom/what/why?
Clare
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Measure twice; cut once (and have a good saw)
Hey, just a thought.....did you check Books Online yet?
Post #1353716
call.copse
call.copse
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:47 AM
Ten Centuries
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 2:48 AM
Points: 1,088,
Visits: 693
mtucker-732014 (9/3/2012)
I dont need to have been to Defcon to write about an article that someone has written. My evidence is Valerie's article, which as you can see if you read it, contains only references to things that might have happened to unnamed people which she heard about second hand.
I have to agree with MissTipps here - do you really need gory details? I might question your own motives for prurience if that is the case. I am only semi-acquainted with hacker culture from some of my further flung peeps but I can certainly believe in a 'constant barrage of sexual insults' from what I do understand - it is clearly more testosterone fuelled and willy waving than corporate IT, which can have such undertones.
Anyhow if you did bother to read Valerie's post she is certainly not bad mouthing the whole thing AFAICS, just worn down by a 'sexist atmosphere' and I think she is far more credible than you are coming across.
Post #1353763
patrickmcginnis59
patrickmcginnis59
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:38 AM
SSC-Addicted
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:23 PM
Points: 415,
Visits: 2,333
from one of the linked articles' comment sections:
"Who I really wish would grow up at DEFCON is the EFF. Once again they have a fund raiser in which one of the prizes is a picture with one of the strippers DEF CON hires every year. "
So this conference hires strippers?
Post #1353853
Ian Massi
Ian Massi
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:08 AM
Ten Centuries
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:15 PM
Points: 1,304,
Visits: 1,664
Wow, that's some rather shocking behaviour, whether at a conference or not. I'm not perfect but I've never tried licking a random woman's shoulder.
A friend of mine was conducting a telephone interview for a developer position with another female collegue a while back. It went well until the very end where the male applicant made a comment:
"I found it stimulating to be interviewed by ladies because software is men's work and women should not be discriminated against even though they are not as experienced"
Needless to say they hung up on him and he did not receive an offer. We should have more discrimination against discriminators, less shoulder licking.
Post #1353868
WolforthJ
WolforthJ
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:18 AM
Valued Member
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:14 AM
Points: 60,
Visits: 242
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Steve. I have been following a similar discussion in the atheist community about a woman being offered "coffee" in an elevator at 3 AM. Richard Dawkins weighed in and the whole went viral (within that community), tagged "elevator gate".
Anyway, the point is, that was mild compared to this. It opened an important discussion though. One that needs to be had.
I suspect this thread will get out of hand very quickly. There will be some Neanderthals weighing in on this. It will be an opportunity to educate, but I won't be attempting to argue with them or to change their minds.
Post #1353872
Aaron N. Cutshall
Aaron N. Cutshall
Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:36 AM
SSC Eights!
Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:57 AM
Points: 895,
Visits: 504
I must admit that abuse, in any form against any victim, really gets my blood boiling! I worked alongside a really thoughtful, creative, and intelligent woman who was quite skillful despite her lack of experience. Over the 5 years that I worked with her, she grew in skill, confidence and talent. Her only fault that I noticed was that she didn't take enough credit for her own skills and knowledge. I realize that was partly due to humility but also partly due to not recognizing her own talent.
People like this NEED to be encouraged and supported!! There is no room for sexism, abuse, hatred, or any other negative behavior! When such abuse occurs, we ALL loose!
"...when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God." -- Mosiah 2:17
Post #1353886
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