Click here to monitor SSC
SQLServerCentral is supported by Red Gate Software Ltd.
 
Log in  ::  Register  ::  Not logged in
 
 


 
     
Recent Posts
   
Popular Topics
Home   
Search
    Members    Calendar    Who's On

Home » SQLServerCentral.com » Editorials » Fitting In
Add to briefcase
43 posts, Page 1 of 5
12345»»»

Fitting In Expand / Collapse
Rate Topic
Display Mode
Topic Options
Author
Message
Andy Warren
Posted Monday, July 18, 2011 9:04 PM
SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: Moderators
Last Login: Thursday, May 09, 2013 12:38 PM
Points: 6,462, Visits: 1,384
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Fitting In

Andy
SQLShare - Learn One New Thing Each Day
SQLAndy - My Professional Blog
Connect with me on LinkedIn
Follow me on Twitter
Post #1143844
andagr
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:36 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:15 AM
Points: 191, Visits: 224
Adapt to the dress code? Watch before you form alliances? Sounds a lot like prison to me. I agree that one should adapt to the work place but I think you are exaggerating. Work places need different kinds of people, not phony chameleons who become whatever situation they are in.

/@devandreas
Post #1143876
majorbloodnock
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:39 AM


Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 9:44 AM
Points: 1,043, Visits: 2,943
andreas.agren (7/19/2011)
Adapt to the dress code? Watch before you form alliances? Sounds a lot like prison to me. I agree that one should adapt to the work place but I think you are exaggerating. Work places need different kinds of people, not phony chameleons who become whatever situation they are in.

I'd suggest that "Sounds a lot like prison to me" is exaggeration far more than anything in the article. The bullet points don't seem to be intended as rules so much as guidelines; Andy calls them "tricks". For instance, adapting to dress code doesn't mean mimicry; it just means you temper your choices to avoid clashing. It's no different than speaking more softly when dealing with someone who's nervous or shy. It's simply the natural adaptation of behaviour to fit surroundings that goes with being a social animal.

Overall, looking through the article, I see pointers everywhere that basically suggest you should think about everyone else first rather than expect the world to revolve around you. Good, sound advice if you ask me, and not just applicable at work.

Semper in excretia, sumus solum profundum variat
Post #1143896
call.copse
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:55 AM


Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 2:26 AM
Points: 1,084, Visits: 690
So work is not like prison then? Well, fair enough, you can pick up the soap quite safely but otherwise not far off - though I genuinely enjoy my work. I'd probably get along OK in prison though - all that time for reading? Brilliant

I think for me about 3 years though. I think development is a tricky beast though and I am very socially inept. I should have appreciated that list on occasion I must admit. Dev teams seem to be a mass of smouldering resentments and insecurities, unless I am just very sensitive.
Post #1143899
andagr
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:28 AM
SSC-Enthusiastic

SSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-EnthusiasticSSC-Enthusiastic

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:15 AM
Points: 191, Visits: 224
majorbloodnock (7/19/2011)
andreas.agren (7/19/2011)
Adapt to the dress code? Watch before you form alliances? Sounds a lot like prison to me. I agree that one should adapt to the work place but I think you are exaggerating. Work places need different kinds of people, not phony chameleons who become whatever situation they are in.

I'd suggest that "Sounds a lot like prison to me" is exaggeration far more than anything in the article. The bullet points don't seem to be intended as rules so much as guidelines; Andy calls them "tricks". For instance, adapting to dress code doesn't mean mimicry; it just means you temper your choices to avoid clashing. It's no different than speaking more softly when dealing with someone who's nervous or shy. It's simply the natural adaptation of behaviour to fit surroundings that goes with being a social animal.

Overall, looking through the article, I see pointers everywhere that basically suggest you should think about everyone else first rather than expect the world to revolve around you. Good, sound advice if you ask me, and not just applicable at work.


First of all, the bullet points are neither rules nor guidelines, they're the editors opinions, nothing else.

I don't agree that dressing like everyone else to fit in and speaking softly with someone who is shy is the same. The first is changing yourself to fit in, and the latter is just social competence (which imo is an important characteristic). And no, I'm not a goth, just a standard jeans and t-shirt guy.

I think it's a bad idea to think this way. Of course, if everyone is going in their own direction then we problably won't get anything done. But dressing equally? Forming alliances with the "right people"? No, this is too much and will just create a gray mass. In the long run I fear that this kind of thinking will cause innovation and freedom to suffer.

/@devandreas
Post #1143915
majorbloodnock
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:59 AM


Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 9:44 AM
Points: 1,043, Visits: 2,943
andreas.agren (7/19/2011)
majorbloodnock (7/19/2011)
andreas.agren (7/19/2011)
Adapt to the dress code? Watch before you form alliances? Sounds a lot like prison to me. I agree that one should adapt to the work place but I think you are exaggerating. Work places need different kinds of people, not phony chameleons who become whatever situation they are in.

I'd suggest that "Sounds a lot like prison to me" is exaggeration far more than anything in the article. The bullet points don't seem to be intended as rules so much as guidelines; Andy calls them "tricks". For instance, adapting to dress code doesn't mean mimicry; it just means you temper your choices to avoid clashing. It's no different than speaking more softly when dealing with someone who's nervous or shy. It's simply the natural adaptation of behaviour to fit surroundings that goes with being a social animal.

Overall, looking through the article, I see pointers everywhere that basically suggest you should think about everyone else first rather than expect the world to revolve around you. Good, sound advice if you ask me, and not just applicable at work.


First of all, the bullet points are neither rules nor guidelines, they're the editors opinions, nothing else.

You're quite right. I should have been more explicit. What I should have said instead is that the bullet points are, I believe, intended by the author to be guidelines rather than rules. Let's not forget, though, that any guidelines are only someone's opinion. In this case, I think they're good enough sense that if someone adopts them as guidelines, they won't go too far wrong.


I don't agree that dressing like everyone else to fit in and speaking softly with someone who is shy is the same. The first is changing yourself to fit in, and the latter is just social competence (which imo is an important characteristic). And no, I'm not a goth, just a standard jeans and t-shirt guy.

I didn't say anything about dressing like everyone else, and nor did Andy. The implication is that you should avoid dressing in an antagonistic way, and that's a very different thing. If the prevailing attitude is smart casual, then dress in your approximation of smart casual. If your interpretation is different from everyone else's, you've found a clue that the company may not be for you after all. There's no question of supressing your identity in that kind of approach, and that's why I draw (and stick to) the parallel of how you moderate your voice to suit your audience.


I think it's a bad idea to think this way. Of course, if everyone is going in their own direction then we problably won't get anything done. But dressing equally? Forming alliances with the "right people"? No, this is too much and will just create a gray mass. In the long run I fear that this kind of thinking will cause innovation and freedom to suffer.

Yes, it's very bad to think in terms of trying to make everyone the same. However, I think you're being a little free with interpretation to read that into this article. Fitting in and (clichéd Star Trek reference here) being assimilated are not the same thing. However, fitting in will involve you altering aspects of your behaviour, and it's worth remembering that the rest of the team will also alter to accommodate you. If you can't accept a certain amount of compromise without feeling it's a threat on your individuality, the problem doesn't lie with the team.

Semper in excretia, sumus solum profundum variat
Post #1143929
cengland0
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:13 AM


Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:59 PM
Points: 1,354, Visits: 1,299
I've been with my current company for 10 years and I still don't seem to fit in with everyone else.

The previous company was for 11 years and I never fit in.

I suppose it's because I refuse to conform to what everyone else does. As an example, most people communicate through communicator and I refuse to use that application as it is distracting to me. I request everyone to send me emails instead. Every time I leave communicator up, people are always sending me junk like "How are you doing?" but they never do that via email.

Dress code? I'm currently working from home in my pajamas. I'll change into something else later in the morning.
Post #1143938
Todd Townley
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:03 AM
SSC Veteran

SSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC VeteranSSC Veteran

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 8:47 AM
Points: 234, Visits: 319
Andy is simply sharing what works for him. This may or may not be useful for anyone else.

There is a difference between "fitting in" as in "becoming part of the crowd (problem?)" and "fitting in" as in "working effectively with your colleagues”. There is also a difference between “standing out” because you are socially inept vs. “standing out” because you have self-confidence and are getting results.

Andy’s comments could be applied, not just to the workplace, but to any new environment you move into (new job, new neighborhood, new church, new school, etc.). Pay attention to what is going on around you, show respect for the people and culture who were there before you, then quietly start being effective at getting results, whatever those may be. As you become effective, people will notice and will come to you wanting to know how you did what you did. That is your opportunity to start shaping a new, more effective/efficient/productive/enjoyable culture.
Post #1143958
hodgy
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:19 AM
SSCommitted

SSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommittedSSCommitted

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:55 AM
Points: 1,865, Visits: 556
since switching to contracting 3 years ago, I've found fitting in and becoming part of the team much quicker and easier to do. on average, it'll take me around 1-2 weeks to get up and running and settled.

Life: it twists and turns like a twisty turny thing
Post #1143965
opc.three
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:39 AM


SSCertifiable

SSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiableSSCertifiable

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:59 AM
Points: 6,703, Visits: 11,732
call.copse (7/19/2011)
Dev teams seem to be a mass of smouldering resentments and insecurities, unless I am just very sensitive.

Well, if you are, then I am too...I could not have said this better myself.

Fantastic summary Andy! A worthwhile roadmap I'll be referring to from time to time down the line. This one is not just for the new hires either. Team veterans who put themselves in a new hire's shoes can help ease the transition and win an ally or two that way too.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community. --Plato

Believe you can and you're halfway there. --Theodore Roosevelt

Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler --Albert Einstein

The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. --Albert Einstein

1 apple is not exactly 1/8 of 8 apples. Because there are no absolutely identical apples. --Giordy
Post #1143973
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

Add to briefcase
43 posts, Page 1 of 5
12345»»»

Permissions Expand / Collapse

 
 
Copyright © 2002-2013 Simple Talk Publishing. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use. Report Abuse.