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Cloud Barriers Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, July 2, 2011 2:24 PM
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Comments posted to this topic are about the item Cloud Barriers
Post #1135556
Posted Saturday, July 2, 2011 8:18 PM


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None of these restrictions or limitations are new to us old farts. The only real difference that I can see between the Cloud and an old IBM Mainframe is that you couldn't get to the Mainframe over the internet (there was no internet back then), you don't know who's actually in charge of security or how good it is with the Cloud, and you can't put your hands on the neck of the SOG that lost your data with the Cloud.

It's amazing how far we've come right back to the beginning.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1135574
Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 3:43 PM


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Jeff Moden
None of these restrictions or limitations are new to us old farts. The only real difference that I can see between the Cloud and an old IBM Mainframe is that you couldn't get to the Mainframe over the internet (there was no internet back then),


Ah Jeff the good days, but remember back then we could always save those decks of punched cards, and thus save our data.


If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

Ron

Please help us, help you -before posting a question please read

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Post #1135648
Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 4:39 PM


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bitbucket-25253 (7/3/2011)
Jeff Moden
None of these restrictions or limitations are new to us old farts. The only real difference that I can see between the Cloud and an old IBM Mainframe is that you couldn't get to the Mainframe over the internet (there was no internet back then),


Ah Jeff the good days, but remember back then we could always save those decks of punched cards, and thus save our data.


My favorite was the card sorter especially at crunch time. So many people would either set the sort column incorrectly, stack the cards in the wrong "bin" order, or drop the cards! We had a rule... if you didn't sort correctly or dropped the cards, you lost your place and the next person was up. It always put me ahead of the game because I always did it right and I never dropped the cards.


--Jeff Moden
"RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for "Row-By-Agonizing-Row".

First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
Stop thinking about what you want to do to a row... think, instead, of what you want to do to a column."

(play on words) "Just because you CAN do something in T-SQL, doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T." --22 Aug 2013

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to post performance problems
Post #1135656
Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 4:54 PM


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Jeff, gotcha beat on that dropping the cards - always sequence punched the cards in what (memory failing me) in columns 72 - 80. Then when I did drop them (which was often enough) and thru the card sorter, sorting by column 72- 80. Worked for me.

Now wondering how many of these young whippersnappers who might read this even know what a punched card is.

Also used an early HP 1000 machine, input was by teletype writer, that was set up to punched every thing I typed onto paper tape. (Remember those?), saved the reels. Saved my butt more that once on the days we had to produce payroll checks. My then boss had me alter the code so that my check was ALWAYS the last one printed. Great incentive to do things the right way, and on time.

Do not know about yourself, but I started in Fortran on an IBM 709, installed at Union Carbide Corp. headquarters. Later that model was some what revised and released for leasing by IBM as the 7090. Ahh those were the good old days.


If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

Ron

Please help us, help you -before posting a question please read

Before posting a performance problem please read
Post #1135660
Posted Monday, July 4, 2011 11:59 AM
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Not a Mainframer but have been around the block so many times that I lost track.

Anyway the way I see it; Cloud service is just another type of outsourcing. Remember that? Yes lets outsource IT as it is much cheaper until you got a $1,500.00 bill for adding a printer to your network. I see the cloud service as the same thing.

I didn't know of any IT person who likes the cloud service for data/database and I haven't lost a debet yet on this topic.

So when someone tells you how good this would be make sure you ask these questions first. The answers will surpise you.

1) How is your data protected?

2) Who 'really' has access to your data from an IT level and are they going to care about your problem like you very on DBA would?

3) What if you want all your data back, how much is that? (LOL, that's a funny one)

4) If the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, IRS, etc. want to seize data that is stored on the same SAN as your data (in the cloud) do you loose your access to your data too? (Yes, they can take (and/or copy) the whole thing for days/weeks and there is nothing you can do about that!)

5) If the cloud provider is hacked/compromised will they pick up the tab for the lawsuit you are now facing from your customers?

Wow! Not alot of questions but very scary ones

But heck 'Go further and Cloud' you will be calling for a DBA to help once it starts to rain. Just hope the lighting doesn't get you.

Thanks,

Rudy



Post #1136127
Posted Tuesday, July 5, 2011 11:03 AM
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Jeff Moden (7/2/2011)
None of these restrictions or limitations are new to us old farts. The only real difference that I can see between the Cloud and an old IBM Mainframe is that you couldn't get to the Mainframe over the internet (there was no internet back then), you don't know who's actually in charge of security or how good it is with the Cloud, and you can't put your hands on the neck of the SOG that lost your data with the Cloud.

It's amazing how far we've come right back to the beginning.


Are there any really good references on how to select a mainframe timeshare provider from back in the day, and how to move between mainframe providers after you have a problem? I suspect they are quite relevant, even without the global search and replace operations required to update the jargon.
Post #1136696
Posted Thursday, July 7, 2011 10:50 AM
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I like your post Rudy. I posted a much watered down version with a simple question sometime last year and no one ever chimed in with their thoughts. Not sure if this topic is still too new or just no one wants to talk about it.


Post #1138295
Posted Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:16 AM
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Thanks Keith. I'm just trying to help spead the word that Cloud computing his another "oursource" mistake.

Now I hear people say "Hey what about our development servers?" That could be a good way to help off load the headaches of the development team but how many will actually "mask" their data before they ship off a copy to the Cloud? If you don't then you are back to square one.

Thanks,

Rudy




Post #1138341
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