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Posted Friday, March 18, 2011 10:59 AM
Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

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Tom.Thomson (3/17/2011)
Actually, in the context of a RDBMS, it sounds appallingly uncool - back to the bad old days of the network or heriarchical database models (which would have been a sensible approach to handling XML in an RDBMS, but someone had to reinvent the wheel, didn't they, and forgot it should have no sharp corners) or, even worse, forward to the long promised but never yet delivered working nontrivial OODBMS.


Tom,
I ask this question to anyone that talks about OODBMS vs RDBMS.

Define the differance in schema of a database on a OODBMS from that of a RDBMS database that is fully ACID and Normalized.

BTW: Please re-read the lastest information on Database Normalization and the 5th Normal Form before answering.
:SMOOTH:
Post #1080554
Posted Friday, March 18, 2011 11:01 AM
SSC Eights!

SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!SSC Eights!

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SanDroid (3/18/2011)
Tom.Thomson (3/17/2011)
Actually, in the context of a RDBMS, it sounds appallingly uncool - back to the bad old days of the network or heriarchical database models (which would have been a sensible approach to handling XML in an RDBMS, but someone had to reinvent the wheel, didn't they, and forgot it should have no sharp corners) or, even worse, forward to the long promised but never yet delivered working nontrivial OODBMS.


Tom,
I ask this question to anyone that talks about OODBMS vs RDBMS.

Define the differance in schema of a database on a OODBMS from that of a RDBMS database that is fully ACID and Normalized.

BTW: Please re-read the lastest information on Database Normalization and the 5th Normal Form before answering.
:SMOOTH:


Let's not fight. this is neither the time nor the place


Jamie Thomson
http://sqlblog.com/blogs/jamie_thomson
Post #1080556
Posted Friday, March 18, 2011 11:10 AM
Ten Centuries

Ten CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen CenturiesTen Centuries

Group: General Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:01 AM
Points: 1,232, Visits: 1,046
Jamie Thomson (3/18/2011)
SanDroid (3/18/2011)
Tom.Thomson (3/17/2011)
Actually, in the context of a RDBMS, it sounds appallingly uncool - back to the bad old days of the network or heriarchical database models (which would have been a sensible approach to handling XML in an RDBMS, but someone had to reinvent the wheel, didn't they, and forgot it should have no sharp corners) or, even worse, forward to the long promised but never yet delivered working nontrivial OODBMS.


Tom,
I ask this question to anyone that talks about OODBMS vs RDBMS.

Define the differance in schema of a database on a OODBMS from that of a RDBMS database that is fully ACID and Normalized.

BTW: Please re-read the lastest information on Database Normalization and the 5th Normal Form before answering.
:SMOOTH:

Let's not fight. this is neither the time nor the place


Who is fighting? <looking around> I honestly would like an answer to my question and I respect Tom's opinion.

I have heard a lot of talk about OODBMS, but only that.
I have never heard an anwer to that question that mentioned something we can not do with MS SQL Server.

Perhaps the real answer is "A OODBMS system would not allow the creation of DB schema that is un-normalized and non ACID Compliant."


Post #1080565
Posted Friday, March 18, 2011 5:39 PM


SSCrazy Eights

SSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy EightsSSCrazy Eights

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SanDroid (3/18/2011)
Jamie Thomson (3/18/2011)
SanDroid (3/18/2011)
Tom.Thomson (3/17/2011)
Actually, in the context of a RDBMS, it sounds appallingly uncool - back to the bad old days of the network or heriarchical database models (which would have been a sensible approach to handling XML in an RDBMS, but someone had to reinvent the wheel, didn't they, and forgot it should have no sharp corners) or, even worse, forward to the long promised but never yet delivered working nontrivial OODBMS.


Tom,
I ask this question to anyone that talks about OODBMS vs RDBMS.

Define the differance in schema of a database on a OODBMS from that of a RDBMS database that is fully ACID and Normalized.

BTW: Please re-read the lastest information on Database Normalization and the 5th Normal Form before answering.
:SMOOTH:

Let's not fight. this is neither the time nor the place


Who is fighting? <looking around> I honestly would like an answer to my question and I respect Tom's opinion.

I have heard a lot of talk about OODBMS, but only that.
I have never heard an anwer to that question that mentioned something we can not do with MS SQL Server.

Perhaps the real answer is "A OODBMS system would not allow the creation of DB schema that is un-normalized and non ACID Compliant."

I didn't for a mement think you intended to start a fight. I suspect Jamie thought that because he has seen fights between "relational" people and "oo people" before. But his point that this is neither the time nor the place applies equally to the debate about how OODBMS differs from RDBMS, or to the debate about what an OODBMS should or shouldn't be, as to a fight - this thread is for discussing the question and answer about VS that Jamie supplied, not for drifting off into distant theoretical realms. If we want to have tthe OODBMS discussion (and it might be a useful one to have) we should start a thread specifically (if one doesn't already exist - it may do) for it rather than hijacking Jamie's thread for it. I'll give you a short answer here, because it's easy: since there is no broad agreement amongst OO people interested in databases (nor indeed amongst database people interested in OO) as to what an OODBMS should be (or would be, or could be, or is - people don't even agree on which of these verb forms is appropriate here) the only sensible answer to your question is "I don't know" (but I would also say that it's pretty unclear how or even whether normalisation would apply to an OODBMS). The discussion can be continued elsewhere, if you wish.


Tom
Post #1080769
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