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A Great Deal of Hot Air Expand / Collapse
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Posted Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:07 PM


Mr or Mrs. 500

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Comments posted to this topic are about the item A Great Deal of Hot Air


Best wishes,

Phil Factor
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Post #1055796
Posted Saturday, January 29, 2011 2:01 PM


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In addition to using energy consumption reduction efforts .. how about using arrays of solar panels to turn sunlight into electricity mounted of the roofs of the data centers, the use of windpower to supply energy to a data center. These combined with the newer technologies you have mentioned, and by the way solar panels and wind power have the advantage of being proven .. yes they might be able to be improved, but they are here and can be used starting immediately. And they can reduce the amount of heat generated over the system. Where the sytem consists of a Central electrical generating station, tansmission lines, and the data center.

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

Ron

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Post #1055827
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 11:42 AM
Old Hand

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Is this topic about taking care of limited resources and the earth? If so, we should do all that we can to take care of the planet, based on cost-benefit analysis. For example, years ago we changed the chemical used in air conditioning, to one that was proven to cause more damage! The benefit wasn't there! Should we reduce the cost of data center cooling and power consumption? Yes, as we replace servers we should invest in ones that cost less over time - but again if the benefit isn't there we need to find a better solution. We need to measure the cost to purchase, run, and dispose of the servers, not just how much juice they use. Another example would be replacing a 3-year old server for an application that is little used, and not critical to the organization. Leave it be. On the other hand, replacing out of warranty servers on a critical app, with ones costing $20,000 a piece, which save $500 in energy over the next 3 years, or purchasing standard ones at $5,000 - it would be stupid to buy the more efficient servers.

Is this topic about the pseudo science the media calls global warming? If so it is bunk and doesn't belong here. Debating true science is one thing, debating taking care of the planet is fine. Debating a media craze that has no science behind it is a waste of time. Oh by the way, the same people who started global warming are now talking about global cooling being the biggest issue.


Dave
Post #1055912
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:07 PM
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Wind and solar are not base load generators.
Besides, back in the late 70's we were bigger polluters than we are today. Remember the "acid rain" in Europe?
Post #1055917
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:25 PM


Mr or Mrs. 500

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The United States used 3723 TWh of power in 2006, and Europe was 3022. This makes the 56 Twh used by Data Centers in Europe come in at around 1.8% of all European energy use. I don't have the USA figures, but I guess that they're similar. This contribution seems very small, but the proportion is set to rise. I believe that the science underlying the idea of man-made climate change is currently flawed, but there is no denying that the precipitate rise in the use of oil worldwide has got to stop. Even the harshest cutbacks in the use of fossil fuels that have been proposed only take us back to early Nineties consumption.
Having said all that, My main worry is that, in the current atmosphere of increasing legislation over energy use, it is much better that the IT industry sorts the problem of its own increasing energy consumption out, rather than leave it to the legislators.



Best wishes,

Phil Factor
Simple Talk
Post #1055922
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:34 PM


Mr or Mrs. 500

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@niall.baird Hmm. Perhaps this is a base load generator: Scientists design cow dung-powered data centre

http://www.futuregov.asia/articles/2010/jun/03/scientists-design-data-centre-powered-cow-dung/

Researchers have found a way to combine dairy farm waste and the heat generated from data centres to create a sustainable ecosystem.
'Around 3.0 kilowatt-hours of electricity could be generated daily from the manure of one cow. Approximately 70 per cent of the energy from the methane could be used for power and cooling, sufficient to power a medium-sized data centre. '
You couldn't make this stuff up

There are datacentres being used to provide heating for housing estates!



Best wishes,

Phil Factor
Simple Talk
Post #1055923
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:40 PM
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@Phil
Believe it or not, there are a couple of (small) electricity generation plants here in Melbourne that run on Methane collected from old rubbish tips.

Unfortunately though, the methane produced by one of these tips seeped out and caused almost an entire suburb to be evacuated. (http://www.theage.com.au/national/explosive-methane-scare-could-hit-thousands-20080911-4eaf.html)
Post #1055927
Posted Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:56 PM
Old Hand

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Phil Factor (1/30/2011)
The United States used 3723 TWh of power in 2006, and Europe was 3022. This makes the 56 Twh used by Data Centers in Europe come in at around 1.8% of all European energy use. I don't have the USA figures, but I guess that they're similar. This contribution seems very small, but the proportion is set to rise. I believe that the science underlying the idea of man-made climate change is currently flawed, but there is no denying that the precipitate rise in the use of oil worldwide has got to stop. Even the harshest cutbacks in the use of fossil fuels that have been proposed only take us back to early Nineties consumption.
Having said all that, My main worry is that, in the current atmosphere of increasing legislation over energy use, it is much better that the IT industry sorts the problem of its own increasing energy consumption out, rather than leave it to the legislators.


I agree with you. One thing we need to keep in mind is where the increase is coming from - China. We have no control over that. The big issue is that in the US the government is taxing everyone so much, to pay for so many things the government has no business doing, that nobody can afford to improve on things. I know it is only part of the issue, but the so called health care reform has reduced payments from goverment to hospitals, while increasing regulations and decreasing reimbursements from the one source they can use to pay bills - insurance companies. Where are they going to get the money to increase efficiency?

Sigh.


Dave
Post #1055964
Posted Monday, January 31, 2011 9:35 AM
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[b]djackson 22568 (1/30/2011.....so called health care reform has reduced payments from goverment to hospitals, while increasing regulations and decreasing reimbursements from the one source they can use to pay bills - insurance companies.
Sigh.


Hate tp wander off topic, but it looks like that's already been done, and I also hate to see misinformation spread unchecked.

Your statement is not true. Hospitals are for the health care reform. Insurance companies are against it only because they are being forced to cover things such as preexisting conditions. The US is one of the few major countries without a universal health care system, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, have all successfully implemented government run programs with often easier access and much reduced costs.

BTW, Phil, are you trying to say that something smells fishy?

Definition of SMELT
: any of a family (Osmeridae) of small bony fishes that closely resemble the trouts in general structure, live along coasts and ascend rivers to spawn or are landlocked, and have delicate oily flesh with a distinctive odor and taste



Post #1056265
Posted Monday, January 31, 2011 9:55 AM
Old Hand

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RML51 (1/31/2011)
[b]djackson 22568 (1/30/2011.....so called health care reform has reduced payments from goverment to hospitals, while increasing regulations and decreasing reimbursements from the one source they can use to pay bills - insurance companies.
Sigh.


Hate tp wander off topic, but it looks like that's already been done, and I also hate to see misinformation spread unchecked.

Your statement is not true. Hospitals are for the health care reform. Insurance companies are against it only because they are being forced to cover things such as preexisting conditions. The US is one of the few major countries without a universal health care system, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, have all successfully implemented government run programs with often easier access and much reduced costs.


Sorry, but the hospital I work at is NOT in favor, and I talk to hundreds of people at other hospitals, all of whom are against it. Hospitals are going to see reduced income, experts predict 50% of doctors may be lost, and while universal health care has been tried elsewhere, it has failed miserably in every case. If Canada has it so good, why are their people coming to the US for care? Covering preexisting conditions will do NOTHING but increase costs!

We can agree to disagree on this one.


Dave
Post #1056273
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