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RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

SQLNightOwl — Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:08:00 GMT

I enjoyed your article as I'm struggling thru the forest heading in the other direction. I believe there is a need out there for a series of books "Database A for the Database B Developer/DBA". The series should include helpful tips like a comparison between isnull and nvl. One thing I found is that a SQL Server isnull(value, '') will return a zero-length string if the value is null where as an Oracle nvl(value, '') seems to return a null. I'm guessing that Oracle doesn't like zero-length string???

Ona another note -- people that will yell at you without training you are generally not confident or competent in their supposed area of expertice. They are generally threatened by your questions and are trying to get rid of you. While it's tough to be in a situation like that, you should take it as a back-handed compliment. You knew something they didn't and figured out what they new. You walked out of that situation with twice the knowledge. That shows character that is worth it's weight in gold. BTW -- are you looking for work

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

win — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:24:00 GMT

It would be nice to merge the best of breed from both languages.

How much longer will it take Oracle to replace dbms_output.put_line with a simple PRINT statement that has no limits on chars per session.

On the other hand I like the better control of trigger firing in Oracle unfortunately instead-of triggers on tables don't exist.

The list goes on and on ...

I cannot imagine how anyone could write large pl/sql programs in SQLPLUS. Toad, even if it crashes regurlarly and costs a fair bit of money these days, is a god send.

I find it takes several hours when switching from Oracle to Sql Svr or vice versa before I stop making silly mistakes. It's comforting to know I am not the only one stuggling to adjust to the other RDBMS.

Cheers,

Win

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Caroline_b — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:08:00 GMT

good article, sounds like it was valuable, if difficult experience. I spent years on DB2 before getting (accidentally) into SQL Server (and sometimes feel like I've been downgraded from a Rolls Royce to a Toyota Tazz - sshhhhhhhhh... ). Cursors are well-implemented in DB2 & obviously in Oracle as well so I tend to say that it's not using cursors that is a bad thing, but Ms's bad implementation of them.

Interesting that you had to do so much DBA work - I think things tend to be a bit more formal on the 'bigger' db's, with more clearly defined roles, & the bigger SQL Server gets, the more SS installations will have to move in that direction. I still trip over things that I think ought to be there and aren't - mainly automation and operational processing things, like automatically allocating the resources needed to recover a db.

Sounds like you survived anyway

Caroline

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

RichB — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 07:51:00 GMT

Ah, table variables. Yes I see what you mean. However, I should point out that they DO take up space in tempdb, and have a few other side effects. eg You don't get statistics on table variables, which can lead to interesting things like no paralellism (ll?) in queries.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Luis Garcia — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:01:00 GMT

Regarding last post.... survival of the fittest!!! I prefer the crash course style, if you get thrown into a tough environment your learning curve is perfect!!

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

jcraddock — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:00:00 GMT

I did SQL Server --> Oracle and now I'm back to SQL Server (3 jobs).

I have no doubt that SQL Server would be but a footnote in database books if Oracle had taken the initiative to develop a user-centric front end for their dbms in the 90s. I honestly never could figure out what they must've been thinking when I was working with Oracle.

Thank God they didn't work on the front end. I love sql server.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Sam-263310 — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:31:00 GMT

I'm a bit divided on this one. On one hand, I think you should have quit your job the first day you were yelled at, I can't stand experienced (and very often not so experienced!) developers who refuse to teach anything to their less experienced peers. It's not like they were born experts. On the other hand, that painful experience forced you to learn things you probably wouldn't have even thought about if the DBAs were in charge of creating all tables/DTS packages/stored procs/etc. So in the end it was good for you, but was it necessary? I don't know. It all comes down to the age old debate between the people who think the best way to learn how to swim is through gradual lessons, starting at the shallow end of the pool and slowly moving to the deep end, and the ones who think the best way is to just throw you into a turbulent river hoping that your survival instinct will take over and force you to swim. Some will say the last method creates better swimmers, but others will point out that it will also drown quite a few.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

richteel — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:41:00 GMT

I have had similar challenges but just the reverse. I started in SQL Server 7 and had to work in Oracle 8i. I have been burnt several times by the limited tools which Oracle provides and get frustrated with how much longer it takes to do the same things in Oracle. I have been burnt by Oracle DBA Studio to change a password which never happened and looking up a constraint which Oracle DBA Studio displayed the incorrect fields which the constraint was on. Oracles tools take forever to load, if they do load, as they have been written in Java.

Oracle seems to work best if you do everything through SQL Plus but who has the time or the budget? I really don't wish to bash Oracle and many people swear by it. I wish I could be one of them but I find myself swearing at it most of the time.

I am glad you were able to turn your situation around and have a positive outcome. It is helpful for an individual to work with more than one vendors database product. You know more about the challenges and advantages of using one database over the other.

Good Luck

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Jambu Krishnamurthy — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:00:00 GMT

Real nice article. It exactly mirrors reality. I worked

in Oracle 8i very extensively almost 5 years plus. from 95 to 2000 probably. After that for the last 5 years I am working on SQL Server. Now I have to get back to Oracle 10g for my new job.

same plight here.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

jay-h — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:55:00 GMT

Good article, appreciate your writing about your experiences (sounds a bit tough, glad you survived).

I think there is a need for more articles about the conceptual mapping: how does one do a job in SQL Server vs Oracle. SQL syntax is reasonably similar, but other operations are radically different. Most of my experience is in SQL server, but I am occasionally called on to do something in an Oracle instance and it can be a bit intimidating. For example I had to make an archive copy of an Oracle data model on the same machine under a different name (this was part of a third party application). In MS, I would simply do a .bak and restore it under a different name, but that does not seem directly mappable to Oracle. The way I finally did it in Oracle was a whole lot messier and I'm sure it's not the best way.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

sheepoo — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:05:00 GMT

...though in SQL 2000 there is array processingThis definitely stumped me!!!!!How come?

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Loner — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 05:59:00 GMT

Array processing - before SQL Server 2000, you can only create temporary table, but now you can create an arrary.

DECLARE arraryname TABLE (....)

It is just liked creating a temp table but it does not take up space in Tempdb.

You use the exact same command to insert data and select data but you don't have to delete it afterward.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Stephen Hirsch — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:53:00 GMT

Very nice article. I'm an Oracle person who's dabbled in SQL, yes, it does seem very true that SQL is not SQL (shhh, don't tell the recruiters (:=))

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

RichB — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:00:00 GMT

Good story, sounds like you had fun...

Btw you say "though in SQL 2000 there is array processing." Perhaps I am being a little daft - but could you explain?

Cheers

Wang.

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Luis Garcia — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:00:00 GMT

Experience, experience, experience and a will to spend some time banging your head on the desk is what is required to do such a swap of working tools... After going through Oracle, SQL server and Sybase I think that is just a question of a few months missing it. After that is a piece of cake! Having a tough job teaches you a lot!! All good! Congratuilations with your new job, perseverance pays back!!Can be applied to programming languages, once you understand what it is important to learn first you will be ok!! Next step then is CLR C# ? ;P

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Kevin Seng — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:00:00 GMT

Good article, I still remember when I move from T-SQL to PL/SQL I found the SQL was so much difference. Luckly I use SQL Navigator which make things lot more simple. Now I still code in both SQL :-) Personally I like PL/SQL especially the CURSOR

RE: SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

David Coster — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:18:00 GMT

Well said and I am glad that you have got past the whole experience of being yelled at and gone to a place that appreciates you! I don't think yelling at other staff members is acceptable. I have worked with a programmer who couldn't program and my approach to that difficult situation was first to try and help them. When it became fairly obvious that they were not cut out to be a programmer I guess I tried to suggest they change career. Not like your case, howevwer, where you clearly are a competent developer.ThanksDavid :-)

SQL Server Adventures for the Oracle DBA

Loner — Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:20:00 GMT

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