InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comSun, 26 May 2013 00:43:07 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/10/2010)[/b][hr]Nooooooooo, I was hoping not to manage anyone but myself.[/quote]Cool... makes us even. I was hoping to not be managed by anyone but myself. :-PWed, 10 Feb 2010 17:24:02 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/10/2010)[/b][hr]Nooooooooo, I was hoping not to manage anyone but myself.[/quote]On that goal, I'll have to say "fail". :-)What you have is the classic difference between "de facto" and "de jure". You may not be anyone's "de jure" manager, but you are the de facto manager of a lot of people who do a lot of work here on this site.And I'll have to agree that you do a good job of it.As for technical expertise, I like to think I have plenty of that, but I also know for a fact that I don't do anywhere near so much for other DBAs as you do. So, you get an MVP award, and I don't, and I agree with that completely. Whether you have more, less, or the same level of expertise as me is immaterial in this case.Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:58:33 GMTGSquaredhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxNooooooooo, I was hoping not to manage anyone but myself.Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:33:31 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]CirquedeSQLeil (2/10/2010)[/b][hr]So, does that make Steve our working manager?[/quote]Heh... for me, that's at least partially true. He tells me to shutup when I get out of line, occasionally tries to protect me when someone else tries to install handrails on me, pays me when I write a good article, consoles me when I'm ticked, has previously assigned me a task here and there, gives me regular feedback, and has given me the opportunity to succeed or fail here and in the real world.Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:10:46 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (2/10/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]GilaMonster (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.[/quote]Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the other[/quote]Heh... along with the other good souls on this site, that sounds like the makings of what every team should be. A central "generalist" that knows something about everything and some specialists that central figure can draw on to get things done.[/quote]So, does that make Steve our working manager?Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:37:24 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]GilaMonster (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.[/quote]Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the other[/quote]Heh... along with the other good souls on this site, that sounds like the makings of what every team should be. A central "generalist" that knows something about everything and some specialists that central figure can draw on to get things done.Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:52:05 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are.[/quote]Some people specialise highly. Some people prefer to generalise. The fact that Jeff and I are in the former category and you're in the latter (in general) doesn't make either better than the otherTue, 09 Feb 2010 22:04:27 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxThat's some of the small stuff too. There is the other things like staying on top of research for QOD, editing articles and reviewing them for content, and the podcast - that's quite a bit to contribute. I agree with Jeff and Gail - just don't let it go to your head ;-)Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:29:38 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxThanks, I appreciate the complements. Nice to know that I'm still answering a few that you don't know. I suspect fewer every dayTue, 09 Feb 2010 21:03:42 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Perhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are. [/quote]You sell yourself way too short. You've answered many technical forum questions that I just didn't know the answer to... guess I'm going to have to start leaving a note on each one I come across like that so you know. And take a look at your editorials... you can't just make that stuff up... it takes knowledge and a heck of a lot of research. Your highly technical abilities are just different than mine or Gail's. I do "nuts and bolts" stuff... you figure out what type of "bridge" to build and where.I'll tell you up front that I could never write even a small group of editorials like what you do never mind having one or two ready every day.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:46:49 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxPerhaps I'm selling myself somewhat short. I know I do help people, and try to give them good info, but I'm certainly not the highly technical MVP that some of you are. Like the T-SQL Jeff Moden and Corruption guru Gail Shaw.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:54:00 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]CirquedeSQLeil (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Gift Peddie (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote]It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.[/quote]I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed. [/quote]That is good to know. Not that you can write crud and have it published, but that there is a system of checks and balances.[/quote]That is just the most egregious.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:12:32 GMTGift Peddiehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Gift Peddie (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote]It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.[/quote]I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed. [/quote]That is good to know. Not that you can write crud and have it published, but that there is a system of checks and balances.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:54:35 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. Nor would I be the expert to dive into a deep technical problem. Yet some people perceive it that way.[/quote]While I definitely agree that the MVP award is a community service award, I think the perception of technical knowledge can certainly be ok with certain individuals... There are many MVPs who are experts in their field. Peter Larsson, Gail Shaw, Adam Machanic, etc, etc, just to name a few. After all and except for some relatively rare cases, if you don't have tecnical knowledge in the community you're involved in, then you're not providing a service to the community and probably won't get the award. Like I said, there are exceptions to that rule. ;-) I also think that the MVP known as "Steve Jones" tends to underrate both his ability and his knowledge. Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:50:27 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote]It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded.[/quote]I know SQL Server MVP who wrote a book on design that does not know Views are Query rewrites and another who does not know all aggregates ignore nulls except count(*), I understand not knowing the reason for that is the aggregates are created for scalar value but a SELECT returns a Table but not knowing the T-SQL based anomaly is a problem. The person who wrote the worst book in Microsoft press history with almost 100 pages of errata in C# is still MVP in the developer division. There are some developer division MVPs who are not accepted as moderators in their MVP designation forums because someone must check their answers and post correction as needed. Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:11:50 GMTGift Peddiehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. [/quote]It's both. Someone who blogs 5 times a day but just quotes Books Online or is dead wrong is probably not going to get awarded[quote] [b]I know a lot about SQL Server[/b], but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. [/quote]You said it. You know a lot about SQL Server and you can apply that lot of knowledge about SQL Server to technical problems that people have. If that isn't "high-quality, real-world technical expertise", I don't know what is.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:14:58 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Gary's argument for the award (and Jack's) are the problem I've seen with the MCSE, MCDBA, etc. over the years. HAving one doesn't mean you have expertise in clustering, replication, SSIS, etc. It's too general a test. In my mind, to be an MCDBA, you'd really need to pass 12-15 tests, each covering different aspects of SQL Server. Why don't we have a replication test? Why not an SSIS test?The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. Nor would I be the expert to dive into a deep technical problem. Yet some people perceive it that way.[/quote]I think this is where the rub lies. It's specifically advertised as seeking the "best and the brightest" in the technical community.Quote:[quote]These exceptional community leaders come from a wide range of backgrounds. They are teachers, artists, doctors, engineers, as well as technologists, [u]who actively share their high-quality, real-world technical expertise[/u] with the community and with Microsoft[/quote](from Microsoft's own description of what MVP's are)It's hard to perceive as a purely community service award when the only theme that consistently comes up on the descriptions about it is the technical expertise aspect.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:04:44 GMTMatt Miller (#4)http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]Gary's argument for the award (and Jack's) are the problem I've seen with the MCSE, MCDBA, etc. over the years. HAving one doesn't mean you have expertise in clustering, replication, SSIS, etc. It's too general a test. In my mind, to be an MCDBA, you'd really need to pass 12-15 tests, each covering different aspects of SQL Server. Why don't we have a replication test? Why not an SSIS test?The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. Nor would I be the expert to dive into a deep technical problem. Yet some people perceive it that way.[/quote]I think publishing the extent of one's community service would be good for the award. We don't know all of the MVP's but maybe we could get insight into what all of them do. Some we have an inkling of an idea - many we have no clue at all why they are an MVP.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:59 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxGary's argument for the award (and Jack's) are the problem I've seen with the MCSE, MCDBA, etc. over the years. HAving one doesn't mean you have expertise in clustering, replication, SSIS, etc. It's too general a test. In my mind, to be an MCDBA, you'd really need to pass 12-15 tests, each covering different aspects of SQL Server. Why don't we have a replication test? Why not an SSIS test?The other problem is that the MVP is a community service award, but perceived as a technical one. I know a lot about SQL Server, but I don't claim expert status in any particular area. Nor would I be the expert to dive into a deep technical problem. Yet some people perceive it that way.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:19:10 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]GilaMonster (2/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Gary Varga Old (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]As a community we must be wary of what an award means. I would like to be able to see why a particular MVP was awarded the status and for what, if any, technical area e.g. I contribute here but there is no way I should get a SQL Server MVP [/quote]Many (most?) MVPs, when they list the award in a signature will list the technical speciality that the award is for. So, if I were to put it in my sig, it would read[quote]Microsoft MVP for SQL Server[/quote]That tells you that you should expect that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to SQL Server, but if I start telling you how to write a web application, run fast.[/quote]I think I am paraphrasing Jack Corbett by highlighted that an expert in one area or application of SQL Server is not necessarily experienced in other areas yet the MVP carries equal weighting. SQL Server is huge. Perhaps SQL Server MVP is too alll ecncompasing for some.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:04:57 GMTGary Vargahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Gary Varga Old (2/9/2010)[/b][hr]The level of quality appears to vary greatly. Most are very good. Occasionally, I have been given reason to call into question the person's award. [/quote]I would unfortunately have to agree with you on that point. :( :sick:[quote]As a community we must be wary of what an award means. I would like to be able to see why a particular MVP was awarded the status and for what, if any, technical area e.g. I contribute here but there is no way I should get a SQL Server MVP [/quote]Many (most?) MVPs, when they list the award in a signature will list the technical speciality that the award is for. So, if I were to put it in my sig, it would read[quote]Microsoft MVP for SQL Server[/quote]That tells you that you should expect that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to SQL Server, but if I start telling you how to write a web application, run fast.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:00:03 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI have a mixed opinion on the MVP award. I have discussed with, received help from, assisted and read postings by MVP's. The level of quality appears to vary greatly. Most are very good. Occasionally, I have been given reason to call into question the person's award. They appear to be worthy of ejection from the industry completely.It reminds me of the situation when certification went big in the UK circa 1999-2000 and every student, worker (especially foreign workers for visa purposes) and double glazing salesmen got certified to try and pass themselves off as experts. Some in the first category had the potential to become experts. Some in the middle category were experts. Some in the last category were very nice. The point being that those you come across who devalue the MVP award risk taring all MVPs with the same brush.As a community we must be wary of what an award means. I would like to be able to see why a particular MVP was awarded the status and for what, if any, technical area e.g. I contribute here but there is no way I should get a SQL Server MVP - OK more accurately there is no way I should get a MVP award. If I post here as Gary Varga MVP I would not want people to add the context of my contributions (SQLServerCentral.com) to my non-existant MVP award given for my contributions elsewhere and then assume I am an expert in SQL Server.Is this a question of reader beware?Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:32:45 GMTGary Vargahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx.Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:30:51 GMTGary Vargahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI also don't think it needs to be changed.Definitely don't need "DBA Idol".If specific forum sites were to implement MVP awards for their sites, they could certainly do it with a popular vote mechanism as all/part of it. If I were asked to vote for a series of SSC MVPs, I could certainly do that. If I were asked to vote for "forum MVPs", including ExpertsExchange, MSDN, et al, I wouldn't even know where to start. I imagine that would be the same for most others.Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:41:34 GMTGSquaredhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI agree with those who have said that putting the weighting of the different contributions out there would open up the system to being gamed and people who would do that are not people I would want to see be an MVP.Over the last 2 years or so, I have met many SQL Server MVP's and all of them have earned the award. All of them have different levels of knowledge and all of them have different areas of expertise as well. I've also met many people who are not MVP's who I think would be great MVP's, but you have to limit the number in order for the program to maintain value.If I were to change the MVP Program at all, at least within SQL Server, I'd prefer to see SQL Server MVP's have concentrations like SSIS, Performance, SSAS, etc... An MVP could be one in several concentrations. I say this because, if I were to be awarded, I might answer a question in SSIS where I have experience, but not expert level like Brian Knight or Andy Leonard, and if I list that I'm an MVP in my signature my answer may be given greater weight because of that, when a non-MVP with more SSIS expertise may have provided a better answer.Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:03:25 GMT Jack Corbetthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx"If it ain't broke, why "fix" it?"Giving the masses the ability to vote on it without them having some type of ownership stake in it is a sure way of having a most popular or name-recognition persons getting the slots. You try to fix this a little by restricting it to MSDN account holders which is probably an ok compromise (like only allowing property owners to vote). However, you said that it was working because people wanted it to work. If that changes, then look at fixing it. Otherwise, leave it alone!Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:32:13 GMTJoe Johnson-482549http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxFirst, although I would be honored if I were selected as a SQL Server MVP, I don't really see that happening in the near future.I have chosen to participate in the SQL Server Commumnity by devoting may time and effort here on SSC trying to help others learn more about SQL Server and to become better developers or DBAs. I have done this as a way to give back to the community that has greatly benefitted my knowledge and skills with SQL Server. I have learned things here that I doubt I would have learned on my own or if I did, it would have taken years for me to realize what I have learned in a much shorter period of time.I have started writing some articles as a way of transfering knowledge in specific areas as way of passing on additional knowledge, as I have also by trying to blog (although I haven't been very active in that area for a few months).Should there be more openess in the Microsoft MVP program, maybe, but this is Microsoft's award and they should be allowed to run it how they feel best. If you had a community vote should only people with MSDN subscriptions be allowed to vote ina community selection, no. I consider myself a highly knowledgeable SQL Server professional, I don't have an MSDN subscription, why should I be denied a vote if there were a community vote allowed?Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:49 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxit is a ridiculous system - anybody can judge a person by their forum postswe do not need Microsoft's helpand to be motivated by gaining MVP status? come on ...Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:07:33 GMTDataDoghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI wasn't really complaining that the award is judged by Microsoft employees; just arguing that it could be a little more open and that introducing an element of community voting could be a good way to get many more people engaged with the award. I think this could only be a good thing for Microsoft.I was careful in the editorial to suggest that only a small number of MVPs would be "community elected". I wasn't arguing for wholesale change in the way the program in managed or for turning the award into a beauty contest. I suggested the MSDN voting because, as several have pointed out, it is Microsoft's award.I do think Microsoft, generally, does a good job of running the award program, though I also think it could be improved and I don't agree that it would be devalued by introducing a community-voted element. The award isn't about Microsoft assessing how smart you are. It's about what you're prepared to do to help people succeed with their technology. Members of community sites are perfectly well-qualified to make a judgment on who in their community has done that.Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:48:23 GMTTony Davishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxDemocracy.. well it would have been nice. Come to think about it, it would have been nice if the Olympic Games also was made a democracy.Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:45:24 GMTIceDreadhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]GilaMonster (2/7/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Jeff Moden (2/6/2010)[/b][hr]Voting by the general public smacks of a popularity contest rather than a public service award (which is what being an MVP is really all about). [/quote]Agreed. While many MVPs are popular, it shouldn't go the other way around. I know some MVPs that work tirelessly in the local community, but if I mentioned names I doubt anyone here would have heard of them. Doesn't make them any less deserving.In addition, complaining that the [b]Microsoft[/b] MVP award is administered and judged by Microsoft employees is just a little odd.[/quote]I agree with both Jeff and Gail. I know who some of the MVP's are. I also know where the list of all MVPs can be found. Many of the MVPs, I have never heard of and was surprised by many of them. If I were to vote (as is suggested by the article), I would not be doing it any justice. I would have limited information and would base my votes mostly on popularity (human nature - vote for those you know). I don't see how opening the voting up could render the award a fair award.I don't have inside information and I don't know many of the MVPs like another MVP might. They might be able to disclose some of the short-fallings and some of the benefits of the program as-is. For me, it is fine just the way it is.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:20:25 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote]As for weightings, imagine what would happen if someone stated that posts on the MSDN forums are weighted 3 times what posts on any other forum are?[/quote]There are others that "game" other forums for other reasons, so a punch list of requirements wouldn't be ideal. (Just see many of copy-cat posts that appear on "The Coding Project" web site that are thinly disguised rehashes of examples that appear elsewhere...)Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:56:31 GMTchrisn-585491http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]GilaMonster (2/7/2010)[/b][hr]Their job isn't technical though, it's managing cats (or worse).What I was getting at is that in NA, the leads are divided among tech areas. Different person to lead SQL MVPs as Exchange MVPs (probably). Elsewhere it's one person for all. No way my lead could evaluate the tech competency of all the people he's 'responsible' for.[/quote]The MVP lead for Exchange in the US also handles SharePoint and I believe OCS. Canada has different leads, at least for those products.tkSun, 07 Feb 2010 15:21:40 GMTTodd Klindthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/7/2010)[/b][hr]It's not in NA either. Our current lead isn't a SQL person, and also has some development area MVPs. I've had, I believe 4 leads, only one has been a SQL person.[/quote]Their job isn't technical though, it's managing cats (or worse).What I was getting at is that in NA, the leads are divided among tech areas. Different person to lead SQL MVPs as Exchange MVPs (probably). Elsewhere it's one person for all. No way my lead could evaluate the tech competency of all the people he's 'responsible' for.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:12:11 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxIt's not in NA either. Our current lead isn't a SQL person, and also has some development area MVPs. I've had, I believe 4 leads, only one has been a SQL person.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:55:23 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (2/7/2010)[/b][hr]What's very interesting is that a few of my MVP admins from MS haven't been SQL people. So they don't necessarily judge my technical expertise, at least not themselves. [/quote]It's worth noting that, afaik, it's only in the North America region that the leads are by product area. My MVP lead is a former C# expert and he's responsible for all MVPs across all technology areas for the entire MEA region. That's the Middle East and entire African continentSun, 07 Feb 2010 13:24:52 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI was a SQL Server MVP for 5 years, 2004-2008.I think that "democratizing" MVP selection online would devalue the programme. Online elections are too fickle and open to influences that have nothing to do with the quality and consistency of contributions that the award is supposed to represent. The knowledge level of those seeking help in many online communities today is often very low indeed - surely much lower than 5 or 10 years ago. Smart people know how to find the answers without asking: they Google or read a book; they don't post. Put bluntly, I wouldn't trust most online communities to choose who is expert and who isn't. I don't believe Microsoft would either.Also, not all MVPs are awarded primarily for their online contributions. MVPs who organise user groups and conferences would probably be at a disadvantage if voting online was a criterion for selection.The MVP is Microsoft's award. They invest considerable time and money in the programme as a way of engaging with community influencers, getting feedback and refining plans for future product development. If it became a community beauty contest then I suspect it would be less valuable to them and their support for it would wane.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:00:14 GMTsqlvogelhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxI've debated this with people a few times and I tend to agree with Gail. Publishing a set of criteria (xx forum posts, yy blogs, zzz speaking engagements, etc) would lead a lot of people to "game" the award. As it is, I see some people that make an effort to earn the award with a year of hard work.I think there's nothing wrong with that as the MVP is a yearly award, given for your community service over the last year. In practice that's hard to rank, and I think that overall the people running the award do an OK job. What's very interesting is that a few of my MVP admins from MS haven't been SQL people. So they don't necessarily judge my technical expertise, at least not themselves. They may get help, or may not (which might be good for me :) ).This is a Microsoft award, and I think they handle it pretty well. They get some community support and advocation for their products, those that do the work get some rewards from MS, but it's loosely coupled. You don't have to continue to provide support or work for MS, and they don't agree to give to xxx as an MVP. The awards change at a whim.The one thing that I've heard suggested, which would be interesting, is that maybe we ought to limit the number of MVP awards you get. Either consecutively or in total, allowing more people to participate in the program. There are a lot of very qualified, very talented people that don't make the cut, sometimes because there are just some others that do more.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:45:50 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Andy Leonard (2/7/2010)[/b][hr]Interesting thoughts Tony!Recently, MVP nominations were opened to the public. Anyone can now nominate someone for MVP at the [url=http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpnominate]public MVP site[/url] - you can even nominate yourself. :{> Andy[/quote]Actually they've been open for a few years. There just wasn't an "easy" process to do it. I nominated a few people in 2006/2007, before I had the award.Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:40:31 GMTSteve Jones - SSC Editorhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic861174-263-1.aspxInteresting thoughts Tony!Recently, MVP nominations were opened to the public. Anyone can now nominate someone for MVP at the [url=http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpnominate]public MVP site[/url] - you can even nominate yourself. :{> AndySun, 07 Feb 2010 11:05:01 GMTAndy Leonard