InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comSun, 19 May 2013 06:09:17 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (2/24/2010)[/b][hr]Hi CEWII. You're right, I'm the crazy one. But only for another 9 weeks. Then I'm off to the high country for the summer. I'll probably do some miscellaneous stuff, like continuing to develop DBA_Rep. BV thinks I'll be lookin' for work by fall. We had fun with DH this morning when she dropped a production FleetProfile db. This was her initiation into a restore with tlogs. [/quote]I'm sure that was an eye opener.. I think you might be looking for work by fall.. You could be a hired gun, swoop in and fix a problem and then back to the Rick copter..CEWIIWed, 24 Feb 2010 19:36:21 GMTElliott Whitlowhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxAdded Note to above:I use SQL Job History Visualization mentioned, and it is an excellent aid in figuring out what is happening in parallel in SQL Agent. This is one nifty little tool.Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:36:00 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxHi CEWII. You're right, I'm the crazy one. But only for another 9 weeks. Then I'm off to the high country for the summer. I'll probably do some miscellaneous stuff, like continuing to develop DBA_Rep. BV thinks I'll be lookin' for work by fall. We had fun with DH this morning when she dropped a production FleetProfile db. This was her initiation into a restore with tlogs. Wishin' you the best, and let's keep in touch. Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:07:51 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (1/21/2010)[/b][hr]Comments regarding working at home remind me that my suggestion several years ago that our 4 DBA's take a rotating day each week to work at home during high fuel prices has actually backfired on me. It has become a 'reason' to not show up at work ANY day you have a dental appointment, auto repair appointment, sniffle, whatever. Yesterday. I was the only one of 4 DBA's present at work due to weather. I'm going to be 67 years old in a couple months, but I was the only one who could manage to make the commute and be on-site. OK, so I only have to travel half as far, but GMAB. I've had times when I slept a couple nights on the warm computer room floor because we were snowed in at work. I guess maybe I'm the crazy one.And again, it's 6:30 AM and I'm writing this on MY time.[/quote]1. Rick, I know you are the crazy one..2. They should be letting you guys work from home 3-4 days a week anyway with rotating days in.. There is no reason to be in the building..CEWIIWed, 24 Feb 2010 12:53:20 GMTElliott Whitlowhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]talltop-969015 (1/21/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]rick-507511 (1/21/2010)[/b][hr]hey, SSC-enthusiastic, if you trained your replacement in 6 months, I'd guess the company 'did it' to themselves. What is 6 months training for a DBA? A good start. :>)[/quote]You're right, 6 months of DBA training is just a start.Turns out that person I trained ended up leaving the company when she got all the responsibility handed to her after I left. She couldn't handle it from what I heard from a co-worker and ended up screwing up a multi-million dollar database. The company had planned this though from the beginning because they thought that they could bring a junior person into that job at $45K a year and save some money. It ended up costing them much more in the long run though. If they would have just kept a competent DBA on instead of trying to save $30-40K a year and end up messing up a multi-million dollar database in the trade-off. Sometimes, with an experienced DBA you really do get what you pay for. :)[/quote]Very True.Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:47:11 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (1/20/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]David Korb (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger.[/quote]I actually went to a one room school house when I was a kid... and that's exactly what happened.[/quote]That is so cool. I didn't have that as a kid, but figured out the dynamic shortly after becoming a math tutor in community college. That's when my math grades shot up, so I did the same thing as a computer science student. It's too bad schools are so political that we can't improve them in fundamental ways like this.Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:05:25 GMTDavid Korbhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (1/21/2010)[/b][hr]hey, SSC-enthusiastic, if you trained your replacement in 6 months, I'd guess the company 'did it' to themselves. What is 6 months training for a DBA? A good start. :>)[/quote]You're right, 6 months of DBA training is just a start.Turns out that person I trained ended up leaving the company when she got all the responsibility handed to her after I left. She couldn't handle it from what I heard from a co-worker and ended up screwing up a multi-million dollar database. The company had planned this though from the beginning because they thought that they could bring a junior person into that job at $45K a year and save some money. It ended up costing them much more in the long run though. If they would have just kept a competent DBA on instead of trying to save $30-40K a year and end up messing up a multi-million dollar database in the trade-off. Sometimes, with an experienced DBA you really do get what you pay for. :)Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:40:32 GMTTravisDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (1/21/2010)[/b][hr]hey, SSC-enthusiastic....[/quote]No one here by that name Grasshopper.Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:05:58 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxhey, SSC-enthusiastic, if you trained your replacement in 6 months, I'd guess the company 'did it' to themselves. What is 6 months training for a DBA? A good start. :>)Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:44:06 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxComments regarding working at home remind me that my suggestion several years ago that our 4 DBA's take a rotating day each week to work at home during high fuel prices has actually backfired on me. It has become a 'reason' to not show up at work ANY day you have a dental appointment, auto repair appointment, sniffle, whatever. Yesterday. I was the only one of 4 DBA's present at work due to weather. I'm going to be 67 years old in a couple months, but I was the only one who could manage to make the commute and be on-site. OK, so I only have to travel half as far, but GMAB. I've had times when I slept a couple nights on the warm computer room floor because we were snowed in at work. I guess maybe I'm the crazy one.And again, it's 6:30 AM and I'm writing this on MY time.Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:33:51 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxI couldn't have said it better myself. This very notion is evident in SSC with some of the heavy hitters constantly giving of their time to help others.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:42:59 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]I still believe in delivering MORE than is expected and sleeping well at night.[/quote]The "Law of Success", "Lesson Nine", Napoleon Hill.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:12:31 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]David Korb (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger.[/quote]I actually went to a one room school house when I was a kid... and that's exactly what happened.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:10:25 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]José.Cruz (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Hi there,First of all i'll like to say that i complettly agree with your article, i've been helped so many times in this public forums, that now, a little bit more experienced, i feel that's time to give something back, and help others who seek for help.José cruz[/quote]C'mon in! The water's fine... :-)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:05:19 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (1/19/2010)[/b][hr][quote]But there is another, often unplanned, effect: when you spend time helping others, you also improve your own skills.[/quote]By golly, Tim... truer words never spoken. Excellent editorial by one of those "seasoned professionals". Should be required reading for everyone on SSC. Now, if we could just get txtPost_CommentEmoticon(':-)');people to understand the notion... :-D[/quote]I owe most of my skills to users I have helped, it keeps me learning and finding out in most cases the docs and implementations are not related.:-)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:33:48 GMTGift Peddiehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote]Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? :)[/quote]As a couple others said I consider coming out to some sections of this forum to be training. Maybe not Editorials :-D but articles and forums for sure. One thing that always interests me is to compare our in-house coding style to those of people on this forum. Can learn a bunch just from looking at some different techniques.KenWed, 20 Jan 2010 14:13:43 GMTken.trockhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]dma-669038 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Hi Lynn, I didnt think i was..who you are in an organisation is a combo of what you think and what their values are. I was in a position where i needed the job, not that i would not find any other but for other reasons. I didnt think twice about training these guys and they used them against me. I have to say being a very value oriented person in an organisation that is very cut throat and opportunistic is more than likely to work against you than for you. In simple terms the values you have about sharing knowledge have to be practised from top to bottom and not just one or two people.Survival skills are as important as values and do not necessarily make an individual mean especially when the environemnt requires them.[/quote]First of all, I apologize if you felt I was saying "you" were hoarding information. In the context of my post, that "you" was generic. I fully believe in sharing knowledge, and a good manager will recognize that and should support it fully. I will say that I don't go out of my way to share knowledge. It sort of leaks out when people come to me and ask questions, but that is more due to the nature of our department and the work we are doing, not a lot of time for general sharing of knowledge. I'd like to change that, but it comes down to time and priorities.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:46:51 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]dma-669038 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]I couldn't agree more with the concept and practising it among friends and community. Must add a word of caution based on experience when it comes to practising this at work. At work your knowledge is your asset, that is what many technical people are paid for. Personally I have been in two places where I trained programmers from grounds up - from teaching them normalisation rules to doing database code troubleshooting. They were great learners and i learnt teaching them too but guess what happened - in a few months they replaced me with them. I dont believe one can pass on 'experience' so easily and they lost many things i brought to the table by way of that - but these were not companies who cared as much about excellence as they did about getting work done in a mundane way which one can learn by 'how tos'. So again a word of caution about those people who are too eager and come to you to learn and even more caution if management wants you to train them, that is all.[/quote]I can see your side of this since I have been a victim of this as well. I was replaced by someone I trained for 6 months Turns out they (management) had planned it all along, so I understand the job security issue first hand. I have spoken about this many times on this forum before. However, I also can see Lynn's point as well. Hoarding information is not a "team" characteristic and ultimately hurts the company in the long run. I have seen people literally hold a company "hostage" because they held the entire system in their head. They never documented what they did, why they did it, or shared it with anyone. Their personal job security was more important than the company's productivity and ultimate success. Very selfish. But I have also seen that backfire on them too once management got wise to what they were doing and mandated knowledge sharing and documentation and ultimately let the "hoarder" go. It is never good for any company to let one person hold all the keys to all the locks. You are just asking for trouble...This is where management has to step in, and many times they just don't...they sometimes have their own agenda and it is usually dollar oriented.. :)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:40:59 GMTTravisDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxHi Lynn, I didnt think i was..who you are in an organisation is a combo of what you think and what their values are. I was in a position where i needed the job, not that i would not find any other but for other reasons. I didnt think twice about training these guys and they used them against me. I have to say being a very value oriented person in an organisation that is very cut throat and opportunistic is more than likely to work against you than for you. In simple terms the values you have about sharing knowledge have to be practised from top to bottom and not just one or two people.Survival skills are as important as values and do not necessarily make an individual mean especially when the environemnt requires them.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:37:38 GMTdma-669038http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThe flip side to that coin is thinking you are indispensable by not passing on knowledge to coworkers and less experienced team members. By passing on your knowledge you are showing you are team player. Hording your knowledge shows just the opposite. And trust me, no one is indispensable. It may hurt the company to lose the knowledge and experience you have, but it can be replaced over time as others learn what you already knew. It may take time, but it will occur.Edit: Situation that comes to mind isn't that I horded information or knowledge, it is more that certain people higher up didn't appreciate my abilities and it resulted in their loss of 11 years of detailed experience and knowledge of a core system.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:25:09 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxI couldn't agree more with the concept and practising it among friends and community. Must add a word of caution based on experience when it comes to practising this at work. At work your knowledge is your asset, that is what many technical people are paid for. Personally I have been in two places where I trained programmers from grounds up - from teaching them normalisation rules to doing database code troubleshooting. They were great learners and i learnt teaching them too but guess what happened - in a few months they replaced me with them. I dont believe one can pass on 'experience' so easily and they lost many things i brought to the table by way of that - but these were not companies who cared as much about excellence as they did about getting work done in a mundane way which one can learn by 'how tos'. So again a word of caution about those people who are too eager and come to you to learn and even more caution if management wants you to train them, that is all.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:49 GMTdma-669038http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxHi, folks. I'm back online, on my late lunch hour this time. I appreciate the comments about my thoughts on 'company time'. I agree that we all expect and enjoy a certain degree of flexibility due to the historically long hours we all have. Don't misunderstand, I also actively search and read online for solutions to issues that we have. It's just that over months and months of watching some individuals work on forums and from hearing phone calls from a person's outside clients ( we're all contractors ) instead of participating here, I am amazed.I still believe in delivering MORE than is expected and sleeping well at night.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:17:30 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]David Korb (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]"...when you spend time helping others, you also improve your own skills."To go off on a bit of a tangent:This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger. I also believe that this segregation based on age only adds to the age discrimination problem in our society. But, that's another tangent![/quote]Interesting, I'd be curious how this could be implemented in public ed. But, you're right, this is another tangent that belongs in a different forum.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:53:28 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx"...when you spend time helping others, you also improve your own skills."To go off on a bit of a tangent:This is why the one-room schoolhouse is a superior model for education: the older kids solidify their knowledge as they pass it on to the younger. I also believe that this segregation based on age only adds to the age discrimination problem in our society. But, that's another tangent!Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:51:52 GMTDavid Korbhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxYou are assuming that I am working form home. WRONG! I am off today. But that is a very sweet deal. Are you guys hiring? :)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:48:45 GMTTravisDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]talltop-969015 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa[/quote]Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? :)[/quote]Yeah...it is a pretty sweet gig here. And we get to work from home to boot...... OK, back to work now!! :-D[/quote]I'd like the work from home part, sign me up!Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:29:09 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]jswong05 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]That is exactly the message we need in the U. S. of A. Not just to technical people, also to the entire company from CEO to clerk, who work with technical people. "I am not technical" is not a good excuse in the land of USA, no matter you are a manager.[/quote]Shouldn't be just in the USA, but everywhere. SSC is a worlwide community of SQL Server Professionals, and should be a model of how others should work.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:26:16 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxMy previous boss expected me to spend time (within reason) on the forums. He considered it an investment, His reasoning was that it was 'free' training for me (training that didn't have to come out of his training budget) and also, if I saw problems on the forum then if we encountered them in our environment I'd be able to fix them way faster than I would if I hadn't seen them on the forums.I think that he also liked that didn't ask for (demand) formal training courses as many of the others did. Personally I find them a waste of time.These days I'm a consultant, hence no fixed hours. If I spend 5 hours on the forums one day it's 5 hours that I won't get paid for and, if there's work that needs doing, it's 5 hours that I'll have to make up somehow.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:25:02 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]talltop-969015 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa[/quote]Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? :)[/quote]Yeah...it is a pretty sweet gig here. And we get to work from home to boot...... OK, back to work now!! :-DWed, 20 Jan 2010 09:21:49 GMTLSAdvantagehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]LSAdvantage (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Just to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.Lisa[/quote]Wow! Your boss lets you spend working hours answering questions on forums like this and you get paid for this as well? Man! Where do I sign up for that kind of work? :)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:14:35 GMTTravisDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxJust to put another spin on the subject that was raised about how people should not be providing free advice on a forum during work hours. My boss expects us to spend time doing "Training and Development" and that encompasses following/responding to forum issues. Of course, the time spent on this activity would need to be within reason, but there is an understanding that activities like this are key to our development. Again, just adding a different angle to a very valid point.LisaWed, 20 Jan 2010 08:55:42 GMTLSAdvantagehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThank You, I needed to be assured this morning that world is not completley gone crazy, there are people who think about "Helping other and being Helped at the same time". I had been studying and practicing Access, Databases, Data Modeling, SQL, SQL Development, SQL Servers' capabilities, through books, online videos and audios for the last two years, I have found it really helps to understand and enhanced your own skills, when you are trying to explain and show to others. Thanks again... a wonderful editorial..Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:19:58 GMTsaeed_tsohttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxGreat article Tim! Inspiring even.Thank you for your contribution!Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:35:12 GMTJeff Kunkel-812485http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThat is exactly the message we need in the U. S. of A. Not just to technical people, also to the entire company from CEO to clerk, who work with technical people. "I am not technical" is not a good excuse in the land of USA, no matter you are a manager.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:30:17 GMTjswong05http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThat was exactly my thinking when I started answering questions here. My thinking was that I was going to learn more by trying to figure out the answers to people's problems than I would by just reading the answers that other people post.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:07:30 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThanks for the reminder, Tim. This theme came up a bunch at the last PASS conference and I really appreciate that the community is so willing to share their expertise. It's always amazing when you shoot out a tweet for help and get responses from all sorts of people who are willing to help. It's also great reading about the experiences others have had when using SQL so we can learn from what they did.I think I've tended to do this face to face, but find it harder to do online for some reason. That's one of my goals for this year - to blog weekly about something that could help other people. I also want to get involved in the PASS VC's, so I hope to see people around there.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:02:20 GMTPeter Schotthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxHi there,First of all i'll like to say that i complettly agree with your article, i've been helped so many times in this public forums, that now, a little bit more experienced, i feel that's time to give something back, and help others who seek for help.José cruzWed, 20 Jan 2010 06:50:52 GMTJosé.Cruzhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspx[quote][b]rick-507511 (1/20/2010)[/b][hr]Well, folks, I'm so seasoned that I'm pretty salty. I've been helped by a number of good folks over a 40 year career, and have helped train a number of new folks too, one of whom is now my boss. While these online forums are a good thing and I've used them periodically, we need to be sure we responsibly fulfill our own tasks and duties to our own positions before we provide too much 'free' help to these groups. I work with a 'young' man who spends much of his employer's time online helping everyone else with his 'vast storehouse of knowledge' instead of digging in and getting involved in our own issues.By the way, I'm writing this at 6:30 AM with coffee, not while at my desk on 'company time'.April 30, 2010, over and out. Fare well, me hearties.[/quote]Well said my man. Giving free advice should never eclipse or infringe on what you are PAID to do.....I have fired a few of those people in the past myself. Evidently, they did not realize the company was monitoring their web activity! :) But they sure figured it out quick enough when they got escorted off the premises. Bottom line, give advice on your own time, not mine or the company's. ) I post at home on my time, never at work...I'll bet that is not the case for a lot of people who give advice on this forum....Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:33:18 GMTTravisDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxWell, folks, I'm so seasoned that I'm pretty salty. I've been helped by a number of good folks over a 40 year career, and have helped train a number of new folks too, one of whom is now my boss. While these online forums are a good thing and I've used them periodically, we need to be sure we responsibly fulfill our own tasks and duties to our own positions before we provide too much 'free' help to these groups. I work with a 'young' man who spends much of his employer's time online helping everyone else with his 'vast storehouse of knowledge' instead of digging in and getting involved in our own issues.By the way, I'm writing this at 6:30 AM with coffee, not while at my desk on 'company time'.April 30, 2010, over and out. Fare well, me hearties.Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:23:35 GMTrick-507511http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic850197-263-1.aspxThis simple axiom applies to life in general, people. It has very little to do specifically just with giving SQL Server advice. It's called Karma. When you always give of yourself in ANYTHING in life, it comes back to you sooner or later in some benefical way. Conversely, when you take from everyone else in life, that too comes back to you in a bad way.... sooner or later. Not hard to figure out. :)Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:09:01 GMTTravisDBA