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RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:59:12 GMT

[quote][b]umailedit (1/7/2010)[/b][hr]"Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?"The reason I asked this was, database corruption almost always happens. And almost always the customers have failed to take backups even after shouting at them to take backups month after month. So I KNOW that my customers are never going to take backups no matter how much I implore them, so is there any way to cut them out of the process, sort of make the computers do the backup auto magically? Sigh. I know the answer is going to be no.[/quote]You can script SQL Agent jobs out and send them the script. It will create the backup job and the schedule for it. It just has to be run once and the automation will take over from there. Only issue would be file locations for the backups. It's almost doable without human intervention.

RE: Be Prepared

umailedit — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:52:45 GMT

"Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?"The reason I asked this was, database corruption almost always happens. And almost always the customers have failed to take backups even after shouting at them to take backups month after month. So I KNOW that my customers are never going to take backups no matter how much I implore them, so is there any way to cut them out of the process, sort of make the computers do the backup auto magically? Sigh. I know the answer is going to be no.

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:51:26 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (1/6/2010)[/b][hr]good editorial, and nice reminder, Grant.When I'm with Scouts, if we're out in the woods and something breaks, you need to have things to respond to that emergency. same thing with backups and your systems. You can't count on being able to run to the store to make things all better. You had better been prepared early for what might happen.[/quote]Thanks Steve.We're getting ready for the winter survival campout next month. Should be fun.

RE: Be Prepared

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:48:17 GMT

good editorial, and nice reminder, Grant.When I'm with Scouts, if we're out in the woods and something breaks, you need to have things to respond to that emergency. same thing with backups and your systems. You can't count on being able to run to the store to make things all better. You had better been prepared early for what might happen.

RE: Be Prepared

Kim Rossey — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 09:45:54 GMT

Another thought is not backing up to the same box your db server is on :)Email I got yesterday from a frazzled IT lead ... [quote]We recently had a sbs2003 server running sbs2000 sql crashIt was very bad 2 of 4 Hds failed in a raid 5I was able to run data recovery and get some sql backups which show correct file sizehowever when I go to restore the data to our windows 2003 std/sql2005 std server I get backup is incorrectly formed type errors[/quote]

RE: Be Prepared

GilaMonster — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:54:59 GMT

[quote][b]Grant Fritchey (1/5/2010)[/b][hr]My wife and I used to pay renters insurance when we lived in the city. People scoffed at us until the day we were broken into. They cleaned us out, but we were able to replace most of it because of the insurance.[/quote]Lucky you.When I was broken into my insurance tried every trick in the book to avoid having to pay out (including claiming that the break in was my fault). After copious 'discussions' they eventually paid out less than half the insured value of the items, claiming 'depreciation of value'

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:23:24 GMT

[quote][b]Ronald Cartmale (1/5/2010)[/b][hr]I could not agree more with the editorial and have always sort to ensure that my company’s data is protected by the best possible practice but when you work for a company whose only interest in backups is when the worst happens, then like in the film Heart Break Ridge you have to adapt and improvise. I am constantly struggling to achieve even simple model backups because of the lack of disk storage space let alone move over to more secure complex models, and due to performance issues I am limited to doing one backup per day. It is frightening to think that there are companies like this, but I am sure we are not alone as with everything it boils down to cost and like many many people they know they should have life, even property insurance (see some of the cases of UK flood victims) but just can’t justify the cost at the time. Sadly, Penny wise, pound foolish. ;-)[/quote]My wife and I used to pay renters insurance when we lived in the city. People scoffed at us until the day we were broken into. They cleaned us out, but we were able to replace most of it because of the insurance.I also remember having a database go corrupt, fluke thing, but we had good backups and log backups and did a point in time recovery to about a minute before the corruption occurred. We were heroes that day and just because of something incredibly fundamental and stupid easy, good, tested, backups.

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:19:27 GMT

[quote][b]Edogg (1/4/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Grant Fritchey (1/4/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]umailedit (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?[/quote]Speak of Murphy and [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic841472-146-1.aspx]he will appear[/url]. Right here is a good example. No backups. Corrupt file. Just the same as flat tire, no spare.[/quote]Backups don't save jobs but restores do. Having a corrupt backup is just like having a flat spare tire.[/quote]100% True. But step one is still to take the backup.

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:17:10 GMT

[quote][b]ken.trock (1/4/2010)[/b][hr][quote]Speak of Murphy and [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic841472-146-1.aspx]he will appear[/url]. Right here is a good example. No backups. Corrupt file. Just the same as flat tire, no spare.[/quote]This is something of a sad story. Hope it works out.I've read a lot where the final step in a backup process is to ensure you can actually restore the backup :-D. We update our hardware frequently enough such that we do side by side updates (sometimes upgrading the SQL version too) where we restore last night's backups onto our new servers. Proof positive:exclamation:Ken[/quote]Exactly. And you have a reasonable assurance that you'll be able to do a restore and that it will work in a real emergency. That's the way it should be.

RE: Be Prepared

Ronald Cartmale — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:04:16 GMT

I could not agree more with the editorial and have always sort to ensure that my company’s data is protected by the best possible practice but when you work for a company whose only interest in backups is when the worst happens, then like in the film Heart Break Ridge you have to adapt and improvise. I am constantly struggling to achieve even simple model backups because of the lack of disk storage space let alone move over to more secure complex models, and due to performance issues I am limited to doing one backup per day. It is frightening to think that there are companies like this, but I am sure we are not alone as with everything it boils down to cost and like many many people they know they should have life, even property insurance (see some of the cases of UK flood victims) but just can’t justify the cost at the time. Sadly, Penny wise, pound foolish. ;-)

RE: Be Prepared

SQLRNNR — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:55:27 GMT

[quote][b]GilaMonster (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]But why would you need a backup? I mean, it's not as if a disk will fail, or someone drops a table (or the entire database) or the data file gets corrupted or an adimn deletes the mdf accidentally or data modifed yesterday needs to be undone or ... </sarcasm>I'm almost tired of asking people if they have backups in the 'my database is corrupt'/'I need to recover deleted <something>' forum posts. The answer 99% of the time is no. The best I ever got from someone was "I didn't know I had to take backups" And don't get me started on the 'took a backup but never tested it and now it won't restore' situation<sigh>[/quote]Should we be testing our backups? Should we ever really need to make sure the spare tire has air in it?I just had to help somebody change a flat tire the other day - pulled the spare out and it was flat too.:smooooth:I think, on a personal note, I would rather have my spare tire be flat than my backups be corrupt.

RE: Be Prepared

JeremyE — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:21:13 GMT

[quote][b]Grant Fritchey (1/4/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]umailedit (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?[/quote]Speak of Murphy and [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic841472-146-1.aspx]he will appear[/url]. Right here is a good example. No backups. Corrupt file. Just the same as flat tire, no spare.[/quote]Backups don't save jobs but restores do. Having a corrupt backup is just like having a flat spare tire.

RE: Be Prepared

ken.trock — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:12:30 GMT

[quote]Speak of Murphy and [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic841472-146-1.aspx]he will appear[/url]. Right here is a good example. No backups. Corrupt file. Just the same as flat tire, no spare.[/quote]This is something of a sad story. Hope it works out.I've read a lot where the final step in a backup process is to ensure you can actually restore the backup :-D. We update our hardware frequently enough such that we do side by side updates (sometimes upgrading the SQL version too) where we restore last night's backups onto our new servers. Proof positive:exclamation:Ken

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:46:23 GMT

[quote][b]Julie Breutzmann (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]Some people's idea of a backup is having their resume up-to-date and access to a copier.:-P[/quote]Oh, that's a backup. I thought it was disaster recovery.

RE: Be Prepared

Julie Breutzmann — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:36:19 GMT

Some people's idea of a backup is having their resume up-to-date and access to a copier.:-P

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:54:02 GMT

[quote][b]GilaMonster (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]But why would you need a backup? I mean, it's not as if a disk will fail, or someone drops a table (or the entire database) or the data file gets corrupted or an adimn deletes the mdf accidentally or data modifed yesterday needs to be undone or ... </sarcasm>I'm almost tired of asking people if they have backups in the 'my database is corrupt'/'I need to recover deleted <something>' forum posts. The answer 99% of the time is no. The best I ever got from someone was "I didn't know I had to take backups" And don't get me started on the 'took a backup but never tested it and now it won't restore' situation<sigh>[/quote]I wish I could argue or disagree on any point, but I can't.

RE: Be Prepared

GilaMonster — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:43:07 GMT

But why would you need a backup? I mean, it's not as if a disk will fail, or someone drops a table (or the entire database) or the data file gets corrupted or an adimn deletes the mdf accidentally or data modifed yesterday needs to be undone or ... </sarcasm>I'm almost tired of asking people if they have backups in the 'my database is corrupt'/'I need to recover deleted <something>' forum posts. The answer 99% of the time is no. The best I ever got from someone was "I didn't know I had to take backups" And don't get me started on the 'took a backup but never tested it and now it won't restore' situation<sigh>

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:16:27 GMT

[quote][b]umailedit (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?[/quote]Speak of Murphy and [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic841472-146-1.aspx]he will appear[/url]. Right here is a good example. No backups. Corrupt file. Just the same as flat tire, no spare.

RE: Be Prepared

GSquared — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:01:10 GMT

[quote][b]umailedit (1/4/2010)[/b][hr]Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?[/quote]I don't depend on people to do the backups, but people need to make the decisions about what to back up and when and where.No computer can possibly figure out how much data loss you or your company can afford to deal with.No computer can decided whether backups should be to a local drive or a network share, nor what to do with them once they are backed up.And so on.Yes, the computer can do the day-to-day or hour-to-hour work, but first you have to tell it what it's supposed to do. They have no initiative, no judgement.

RE: Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 03:46:50 GMT

People have to set up the backup, monitor it and fix it when it goes wrong. The actual execution should be scheduled and automated, you're right. But far too many people aren't doing it.

RE: Be Prepared

umailedit — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:46:23 GMT

Why should something as routine as backup not be done automatically by computers? Why depend on people to do the backup?

Be Prepared

Grant Fritchey — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:54:45 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Be Prepared[/B]