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RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Tim Mitchell — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:35:57 GMT

Andy, I like your idea of folks posting what they would like to see from PASS. If nothing else, it'll give those of us in the noisy 50 an opportunity to throw down some ideas, many of which I would expect to intersect with one another. I'll put my thoughts into a blog shortly.As for referring to the PASS Summit as simply PASS, I admit guilt in having done this before my enlightenment a few years back. Before I was involved like I am now, to me PASS was just the PASS Summit and nothing more, and I expect that this is still true for many people. One of the chief challenges for the organization will be to become relevant to database pros during the other 51 weeks of the year. I think Jack's suggestion of PASS becoming more active and visible with local groups would be a great start.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Jack Corbett — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:31:16 GMT

I'll third the value of at least occasionally attending a user group. It wasn't feasible for me to do it travel wise until 2007, now I find it invaluable for the networking.Yeah, I'm sure PASS falls short at the international level, but that's easy to do. I work for an international non-profit that has partners around the world. I'm currently on a project trying to create an application for tracking people for use internationally. What we consider important in the US doesn't always go with what our international partners find important. Working internationally is hard and takes a lot of effort.Dan, your take is interesting, and, I think, it melds well with what I'd like to see PASS become. Gotta get that blog post out!:-D

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Dan Guzman - Not the MVP — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:10:39 GMT

It seems that since PASS is a chapter organization, they need to focus on what they can offer their chapters. Since I'm considering starting a user group here in my city (Eugene, OR), I'm looking for all the who, what , why and where I can. I mentioned before about how much I liked Jacks ideas on directories. If I put this thing together and do monthly or every other month, I will need a regular source of speakers and sponsors, not to mention topics. I'm looking to learn something, I'm not doing this to be a speaker, I'm just a Lazy-DBA (shout out).I'm not convinced the larger organization really needs to focus on the individuals. Again, if PASS is a chapter organization, then the members need to be drawn to the chapters, so if PASS makes the chapters look good then they will look good. This will also make it easy for members who have to move to another location get reconnected, because even if the faces have changed, the backbone is the same.Dan

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Andy Warren — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:45:21 GMT

I agree with Steve that even the occasional trip to a user group is useful - it should be fun, not a chore!On value, just to make sure all realize, membership in PASS is free. I know there is still a time investment to sign up (minute or two), and then whether you have reasons to return. I see PASS right now as a 'once in a while' destination, things that impact career, event news, etc - which is different than the mission of sites like SSC and SQLTeam. Maybe we should change that, but right now that's how we're focused.Jack, I look forward to your thoughts on PASS!Also, I'll admit to being US focused, but Greg Low has put in a lot of work driving growth in international chapters, we had another European Summit, and in general he's convinced me to pay more attention to other areas of the world. It'll take time, but we'll get there - we have to build a presence, learn the culture, figure out how to best contribute.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Silverfox — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:16:56 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (10/27/2009)[/b][hr]I think what we're looking for is what would you like? I'm not sure PASS has benefits for you now, but if they could offer something, what would be helpful?I'd say that attending a user group meeting isn't that hard. You don't have to go every month. I go 1-2 times a year to the Denver group. It's about networking, and making contacts. That's an investment in possibly finding a new job for a consultant. Or you could speak on something and get exposure for yourself.[/quote]I would prefer tangible benefits, which give an incentive for joining. I have a lot of ideas but I would need to think carefully about the way to present them. Personally I see no benefit to joining and PASS is viewed very much so as US centric, which doesnt really help.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

ahperez — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:59:55 GMT

Perhaps, as you say Jack, I am the person who should post, and let people know what would be in inducement to joining PASS. Fortunately, I have a full time position with insurance benefits, but most of my colleagues don’t. I think that for any professional organization to be taken seriously in its industry and be worth the price of membership, it needs to fill the basic needs of its members. Offering group insurance coverage and the types of benefits offered by professional organizations in other fields is long overdue in the IT sector. Comprehensive, affordable educational materials and stronger support of local chapters would also be needed to get my interest up.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:25:44 GMT

I think what we're looking for is what would you like? I'm not sure PASS has benefits for you now, but if they could offer something, what would be helpful?I'd say that attending a user group meeting isn't that hard. You don't have to go every month. I go 1-2 times a year to the Denver group. It's about networking, and making contacts. That's an investment in possibly finding a new job for a consultant. Or you could speak on something and get exposure for yourself.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Silverfox — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:33:48 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (10/26/2009)[/b][hr]Jack,Good points and I do think we need to remember it's the Summit. In the past, PASS (the organization) has not offered much more than the conference.I don't see PASS as the group that provides you with answers and help, but what can they do? What would entice someone to see value in the organization?[/quote]Maybe if you could outline how membership of PASS would benefit an individual, that would be a start.I live and work in the UK mostly, working as a contract DBA. I dont have time, regardless of what others think, to attend any user groups or meetings. I would like to know how being a member of PASS would benefit me directly.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Jack Corbett — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:29:30 GMT

I'm planning a blog a post this week, pre-Summit on my suggestions for PASS. I'll be honest, most center around resources for user groups as that is where I am at right now. But I also think that for PASS to truly grow and provide value, it needs to start at the grassroots/local level.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Andy Warren — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:14:28 GMT

Wanted to post so that you'd know I was interested, we can always use feedback. I try to always use "PASS Summit" and agree with Jack that just calling it PASS hurts our marketing.Sometimes even small things equal value. For example, we're maintaining a blog directory and an event calendar. Not flashy, but useful, and I think appropriate for PASS to do that. We'll probably make the 24 Hours of PASS an annual event, and we're looking for other things that fit our 'niche'.We're always looking for suggestions. Doesn't mean we'll embrace every suggestion we get, but we don't ignore them either!

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:23:09 GMT

Jack,Good points and I do think we need to remember it's the Summit. In the past, PASS (the organization) has not offered much more than the conference.I don't see PASS as the group that provides you with answers and help, but what can they do? What would entice someone to see value in the organization?

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Jack Corbett — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:51:11 GMT

[quote][b]ahperez (10/26/2009)[/b][hr]Not generally a talker on topics, but while I find SSC very useful, I don't find use for PASS at all. I can't use my scant training dollars to attend their conference and I get so much more useful and meaningful information and helpful solutions here. The kind posters here at SSC have taught me more than any of the other books and classes I have invested in. Thanks! and I'll pass on joining PASS.[/quote]You are the person that needs to post what PASS could/should do to get you to become a member. I certainly don't expect PASS to replace/replicate what SSC does, but there has to be something it could offer so that it could be relevant for people in the same position as you. These are the ideas that the board of directors need.On a side note, I have a new pet peeve. Referring to the PASS Summit as PASS. That is the first thing that PASS has to stop in order to become relevant. If everyone considers the Summit to be synonymous with PASS why would they go there for any other reason? Call it the PASS Summit or just Summit, then you can get a distinction between the conference and the organization.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

ahperez — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:41:42 GMT

Not generally a talker on topics, but while I find SSC very useful, I don't find use for PASS at all. I can't use my scant training dollars to attend their conference and I get so much more useful and meaningful information and helpful solutions here. The kind posters here at SSC have taught me more than any of the other books and classes I have invested in. Thanks! and I'll pass on joining PASS.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Dan Guzman - Not the MVP — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:06:27 GMT

I really like Jack Corbett's suggestions. All three of them. I've been kicking around the idea of starting a user group here in my town, and a PASS affiliation seems like a good idea, but what would they offer me? Based on their website, almost nothing. OK, I can get a chapter web page, woo hoo.Having access to a speaker and/or a sponser directory? I'd pay for that! To offer links to training and educational materials and discounts to conferences would help me advertise and draw members.I'd like to see these things in the near future, so I guess they are my 1 year plan suggestions.Dan

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

KevinC. — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:11:18 GMT

I think posting videos of some of the presentations would be a good way to show what the Summit has to offer.As for PASS in general, I like a lot of the suggestions regarding surveys and research about items of interest to the community. And providing more support for the user groups, to me, feels like something that should have been there from the start.Feedback is always important. As I have learned in other areas of life: How can they know if you don't tell them?KevinC.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Grant Fritchey — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:58:30 GMT

[quote][b]bitbucket-25253 (10/22/2009)[/b][hr][quote]Grant FinchleyAnyway, that's the one thing I'd like to see. More direct support for the local users groups[/quote]Grant used Live Meeting to make a presentation to the Columbus SQL Server User Group on 10/8.Unfortunately I was unable to attended as it conflicted with my user group meeting ONSIG (Ohio North Special Interest Group) whose meeting was the same evening.Now if there were some way to record those Live Meeting sessions and deposit them with PASS. Pass could then create a library of these sessions and make them available to user groups. True direct interaction with the speaker would not be available. I think this would still be of great benefit to smaller user groups who have a difficult time getting speakers.[/quote]Who's this Finchley fellow and why is he plagiarizing my stuff?:hehe:

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

bitbucket-25253 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:12:39 GMT

[quote]Grant FritcheyAnyway, that's the one thing I'd like to see. More direct support for the local users groups[/quote]Grant used Live Meeting to make a presentation to the Columbus SQL Server User Group on 10/8.Unfortunately I was unable to attended as it conflicted with my user group meeting ONSIG (Ohio North Special Interest Group) whose meeting was the same evening.Now if there were some way to record those Live Meeting sessions and deposit them with PASS. Pass could then create a library of these sessions and make them available to user groups. True direct interaction with the speaker would not be available. I think this would still be of great benefit to smaller user groups who have a difficult time getting speakers.Editted 1:32 PM .. Corrected spelling of Grant's last name My apology kind sir.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

fhanlon — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:10:29 GMT

I periodically get emails extorting me to sign up for a PASS conference which I've never done. Beyond that I have no idea why I would join PASS. SSC has a great website with lots of articles and forums so I see a benefit in being involved here but I can't see why I'd be part of PASS. I guess the thats the question that PASS must answer. Why are they relavent and how can they encourage people to join. They aren't the only conference in town. I recently attended the Power up with SQL Server online conference and I know of the SSWUG.ORG Virtual conferences which my management likes better since there is no travel time and its cheaper. As much as I enjoy travel I don't even understand why I would join PASS. Maybe I'll put of effort in addrtessing this question and look more carefully and their website and what's being offered. But so far I'm not convinced.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:10:50 GMT

In line with that, does PASS have a five year plan? Beyond 5 conferences? As Grant and Jack mentioned, it doesn't appear that PASS does much to help chapters or build a community. Where is the sharing of presentations, or even the listing that chapters could use?I think a wish list is a good idea. I'll work on one.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Andy Warren — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:09:07 GMT

Ok, I'm working on my third attempt at a reply!First, I like the discussion and appreciate the time everyone is putting into it. Next, if I could wish for something from the community it would be a wish list (understanding that even Santa doesn't deliver everything you want) of what PASS should be and do beyond what it does now. You don't have to be a volunteer to have suggestions (though we appreciate volunteers!) and it's ok to dream some too. I recently posted my view of where PASS should be in five years - how about posting your own? I don't mean that to sound bad, I'm serious - rather than focus on just the election or just chapters, why not go take an independent look and post your own five year dream, then let the Board sift through the ideas and try to present back a one year and a five year plan that includes some of those ideas? I'll be following along, and glad to answer questions.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Bill Nicolich — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:48:48 GMT

One thing PASS could do is: Get noticed outside of the database industry. Get in the news so the mass public becomes aware of the organization in a good or interesting way. That would make membership more valuable to members. Get a picture of John Hodgman wearing a PASS tee shirt - or President Obama - you know - lots of interesting people wearing the tee shirt and post those occasionally - create that ironic illusion that everyone knows what PASS is. Get some cameo appearances of people wearing a PASS shirt in some movies or television.Get some artists from [b][url=http://www.threadless.com?streetteam=AppendNow]Threadless.com[/url][/b] or some other online groups to create the new PASS shirt for the year - so that it's cool to have one.An broad organization can often do things that a company or person can't. For instance, maybe PASS could survey companies and heat map those that use SQL Server - or get license information from Microsoft and visualize it. The idea is to come up with data sources not normally available and do something with it of interest to the membership.One organization to take notes from is [b][url=http://improveverywhere.com/]Improv Everywhere[/url][/b] based out of New York City. They organize and film lots of crazy missions. We could do something like that. A great point that Steve mentions is that PASS being a tech-savvy organization, it would be nice to see us do some interesting things with technology that other professional associations haven't done or don't do. Perhaps we could do a geographic visualization of all the PASS members - and maybe do a heat map of involvement with different colors for conference attendance, articles contributed - etc. That information could help other PASS members become aware of other local members with whom they can collaborate.PASS could do interviews of notable industry people and then post them on the PASS site. The Simple Talk newsletter does something like that - and I really enjoy those.Also, if an organization like PASS is open to member-submitted articles, one way to solicit more of those would be to offer suggestions on specific topics - or get to know specific members and find out what they could write about.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

chuckboycejr — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:09:30 GMT

I guess I'm noisy. I don't really mean to be. Anyway, I used to love PASS and had a truly inspiring first PASS Summit in 2004. At one point I was the Executive Chair of the PASS Chapter committee and have since contemplated running for the Board.I once jokingly said "PASS is a place where good ideas go to die" to a friend of mine that was on the Board. It was a half-serious throw away line that us sarcastic cynics make to get a laugh more than to make a point. My friend on the Board seized on it as if I'd made some profound observation. (I didn't realize I had, I was half joking and frustrated).The thing is, PASS Summits are hard and cost a lot of money. Any other costs have always played second fiddle to the conference. If that's been the case in the good times, how will it be so now with a muddle through economy that we are in.Frankly, I think we need a reset. I love to see new life on the Board and I welcome seeing people like Tim Ford, Jeremiah Peschkaj, and others step up to make themselves available.What IS our community? Is it a once a year Summit? Is it a Board? What are we spending money on? Why are we spending it? "Because we always have done things like this" never works for me.These are times of change. Let's let our ideas come to life.Chuck@chuckboycejroh, go Phillies!

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

kevriley — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:27:55 GMT

[quote][b]Grant Fritchey (10/22/2009)[/b][hr]PASS does put on a Summit in Europe. It's not as big or as well advertised as the Summit in the US (usually in Seattle these days), but it's pretty well attended by most of the bigger name presenters. It was [url=http://www.european-pass-conference.com/]held in Germany[/url] in April of this year. You guys should try to go next year.[/quote]In the UK we have [url=http://www.sqlbits.com/]SQL Bits[/url], which is now the biggest SQL Server conference in Europe.Best of all, its FREE!Kev

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Jack Corbett — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:16:45 GMT

Another one do the noisy 50 chiming in.Until about 2 years ago I was only vaguely aware that PASS existed and that was because I saw reference to the Summit here on SSC. I lived 2.5-3 hours from the nearest user group and have a life outside SQL so making that kind of effort was not happening. Now I am co-President of my local chapter (OPASS) and have some idea of what PASS is and what I think it should do. I think PASS should stand on the shoulders of the local chapters. PASS should be working to develop:[ul]A speaker directory where local chapter leaders can find speakers in their regionA sponsor directory so we can find sponsors or at least who to contact in listed companies about sponsorship.Training beyond the Summit. I'd include speaking seminars, chapter leader seminars. By accident I found out that there are regional mentors, find that information on the PASS web site.[/ul]I'm sure I could come up with more, but I think I made my point. I believe PASS is only as strong as it's local chapters, so right now, the focus needs to be on strengthening them.I'll be at the chapter leaders lunch on Thursday at the Summit and I think these are things Chapter Leaders need to bring up and I will.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

kevriley — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:12:36 GMT

[quote][b]Silverfox (10/22/2009)[/b][hr]scratch that, cannot make those times, bloody typical, how can you be expected to be there when the start times are part of BAU Hours. lol[/quote]I think they do that to keep the finish times down to a reasonable hour, whilst getting as much into the meeting as poss.You're right though it doesn't make it easy for us who dare to not work in the confines of the city!!:-DKev

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Grant Fritchey — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:41:44 GMT

PASS does put on a Summit in Europe. It's not as big or as well advertised as the Summit in the US (usually in Seattle these days), but it's pretty well attended by most of the bigger name presenters. It was [url=http://www.european-pass-conference.com/]held in Germany[/url] in April of this year. You guys should try to go next year.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Silverfox — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:29:54 GMT

[quote][b]kevriley (10/22/2009)[/b][hr]Silverfox,my local group is the Manchester SSUG, part of the UK SSUG - try their website [url=www.sqlserverfaq.com]www.sqlserverfaq.com[/url] - it's maintained mainly by Tony Rogerson. They also have meetings in Leeds, Reading, London, Cardiff, Dundee and Bracknell.As you'll see from the website though, there's no reference to PASS!Where are you based?Kev[/quote]based in North Wales, but living and working in woking atm, well for the next month or so, then anywhere in europe. I go where the work is.maybe the next london meeting I might try and get to.scratch that, cannot make those times, bloody typical, how can you be expected to be there when the start times are part of BAU Hours. lol

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

kevriley — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:21:35 GMT

Silverfox,my local group is the Manchester SSUG, part of the UK SSUG - try their website [url=www.sqlserverfaq.com]www.sqlserverfaq.com[/url] - it's maintained mainly by Tony Rogerson. They also have meetings in Leeds, Reading, London, Cardiff, Dundee and Bracknell.As you'll see from the website though, there's no reference to PASS!Where are you based?Kev

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Silverfox — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:53:09 GMT

[quote][b]kevriley (10/22/2009)[/b][hr]Steve,liked your blog post and editorial today about this issue, and couldn't agree more that there should be more transparency.As a DBA in the UK, I feel very, very distant from PASS. I joined a few years ago, but my location is a large barrier to any physical events! Not that that is PASSs fault.My only direct connection is regular emails about every 3-4 weeks. I do participate in my local user group, which in turn is linked with the UK SSUG, which itself is somehow 'affiliated' to PASS (although the only clue to that is a link to the UK SSUG from SQLPAss.org) - hardly feel 'connected'! I don't feel part of a community with PASS, I feel more part of a community here at SSC. I certainly don't feel as though PASS does anything for me, and if it ceased tomorrow, I'm not sure I'd notice.[/quote]I am also a DBA in the uk, Where is your local group?, never seen one anywhere near where I work. PASS doesnt really have any effect on what I do, just seems to be another organisation that is there in the background, that people rave about but doesnt seem to offer anything to DBA's working in the UK.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

Grant Fritchey — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:46:22 GMT

Sorry, one of the noisy 50 still making noise.The PASS Summit is one of the best networking events I've ever seen. The way that the leaders in the community reach out to others, the opportunities for talking to each other, vendors, writers, MVP's... it's great. I have great friends there that I only see once a year.Except for the summit though, the organization doesn't do much for the day-to-day lives of DBA's that I can see. They have an active interest and a network connection with local user groups around the country. But, as a leader of one of those user groups, I don't get anything from that association. When we launched the group we received a few books and once last year we got some old SQL Standard magazines. We also recieved a kickback for members that attended the summit (which was actually quite nice). Other than that... silence. No help with speakers or sponsors. As the leader of a user group, I'm on my own except for the support I get from the rest of the SQL Server community. I'd love to see something out of PASS on this.Don't get me wrong, I know that it's a volunteer run organization. I'm one of the volunteers. I also know that volunteering you can only do so much. Even what you commit to do isn't always done as well as it should be or on time or sometimes, even done at all. But more is needed. Things have improved over the years in some ways. PASS has much better technology supporting the organization now than it did. Some of the support staff is excellent (Sanjeet & Blythe, you guys are great), but that's two people. They're only going to get so much done.Anyway, that's the one thing I'd like to see. More direct support for the local users groups.

RE: What Do We Want from PASS?

kevriley — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:36:25 GMT

Steve,liked your blog post and editorial today about this issue, and couldn't agree more that there should be more transparency.As a DBA in the UK, I feel very, very distant from PASS. I joined a few years ago, but my location is a large barrier to any physical events! Not that that is PASSs fault.My only direct connection is regular emails about every 3-4 weeks. I do participate in my local user group, which in turn is linked with the UK SSUG, which itself is somehow 'affiliated' to PASS (although the only clue to that is a link to the UK SSUG from SQLPAss.org) - hardly feel 'connected'! I don't feel part of a community with PASS, I feel more part of a community here at SSC. I certainly don't feel as though PASS does anything for me, and if it ceased tomorrow, I'm not sure I'd notice.

What Do We Want from PASS?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:26:42 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]What Do We Want from PASS?[/B]