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RE: Twitter Your Issues

Jason Massie-393642 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:30:55 GMT

I wrote post on how to update and a number of other web 2.0 services via database email. It is definitely not a replacement for an enterprise monitoring system but it could be a nice supplement.[url=http://statisticsio.com/Home/tabid/36/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/275/This-Update-Came-from-SQL-Server.aspx]http://statisticsio.com/Home/tabid/36/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/275/This-Update-Came-from-SQL-Server.aspx[/url]

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:16:18 GMT

[quote][b]skjoldtc (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]My point is that people get irritated when I don't reply fast enough. I would rahter not have the hassle to begin with.[/quote]Well, their expectations are unrealistic and I don't know that you can do anything about that. But that's going to be the case, regardless of the medium. Even with that expectation, you don't give up on email, right? Same argument could be made for FaceBook, LinkedIn, Twitter, etc.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:14:41 GMT

[quote][b]John Erdovegi (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]DELETED SOME...You could create a similar system to be use internally for your business, [b]and on secure-websites[/b], then you have more control and security. It can be run on a separate server. I've done some similar segments like this.:)[/quote]Quoting my original entry, and on secure-websites. I think SQL Server even has some SMTP alert emailing capabilities. I've done some DBA work, and have had several titles "Systems Administrator", "Director of Computer Services", but I've been mostly a "Developer" or "Programmer/Analyst", for over 20 years.You can add auto-texting to cell-phones, or even automated voice-response systems for telephone dial-up by people. The internet can be used securely by an IT department. If you have the programming resources available to your business or can have outside Consultants do it for you.[/quote]If you're looking to do alerting, that's one thing. I don't see a point of using Twitter for that. I know of some that do. I think it's already been posted that Yammer basically works the same way but is focused on business. However, when it comes to being able to reach out to a community in a quick and easy manner (since you're limited to 140 characters) when the structure of a forum isn't needed, Twitter fits the bill. When I need more structure, SSC.com tends to be where I go. I think you get the idea. It is social, which is a plus for the environment. But it's also quick, meaning it's kind of like that hallway conversation environment. I cite the BULK INSERT example I previously posted about. That came about because someone asked about opening 300 MB files in SSMS. He was able to open it using SQLCMD. The fact anyone was opening a 300 MB file in SSMS drew my interest. So I asked why and he indicated he had data and schema together. This naturally led to the question of whether or not he could separate the two. He could. So I asked if he had considered BULK INSERT. Pretty simple exchange, and hopefully it helped. I've received similar help on things. Now, that could have gone on in a forum, but a more active medium like Twitter, that conversation took place pretty quickly.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

John Erdovegi — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:01:20 GMT

[quote][b]K. Brian Kelley (11/13/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]dphillips (11/13/2008)[/b][hr][quote]Wouldn't allow, or currently doesn't offer? Sounds like a matter of preference and ease of offering, not a matter of ability.[/quote]Wouldn't allow. For instance, an internal system would only permit communication within the organization. Twitter allows me to talk to a far wider audience, many of whom have broad experiences. That's just something an internal system cannot reproduce. Think about comparing an internal company system to a community site like SQLServerCentral.com. There's just no comparison.[/quote]I'm not sure what you mean by "Wouldn't allow"[quote][b]John Erdovegi (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]DELETED SOME...You could create a similar system to be use internally for your business, [b]and on secure-websites[/b], then you have more control and security. It can be run on a separate server. I've done some similar segments like this.:)[/quote]Quoting my original entry, and on secure-websites. I think SQL Server even has some SMTP alert emailing capabilities. I've done some DBA work, and have had several titles "Systems Administrator", "Director of Computer Services", but I've been mostly a "Developer" or "Programmer/Analyst", for over 20 years.You can add auto-texting to cell-phones, or even automated voice-response systems for telephone dial-up by people. The internet can be used securely by an IT department. If you have the programming resources available to your business or can have outside Consultants do it for you.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

skjoldtc — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:54:12 GMT

[quote][b]K. Brian Kelley (11/13/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]skjoldtc (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]Twitter is another way to be always connected. Who needs that? There has to be downtime somewhere.Friends and family get irritated as it is that I don't check personal email thoughout the day (not allowed at my current gig). I used to use IM and angered those on my list when I wasn't replying instantly. I don't need the aggravation. I don't want nor need 24/7 connectivity. At work when something fails, yes, but that's the exception.[/quote]That's one of the beauties of Twitter. You can always close the client. When you have time again, you can open it up and check your replies, because unlike some IMs, you can have "off-line" messages.[/quote]My point is that people get irritated when I don't reply fast enough. I would rahter not have the hassle to begin with.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:23:17 GMT

[quote][b]dphillips (11/13/2008)[/b][hr][quote]Wouldn't allow, or currently doesn't offer? Sounds like a matter of preference and ease of offering, not a matter of ability.[/quote]Wouldn't allow. For instance, an internal system would only permit communication within the organization. Twitter allows me to talk to a far wider audience, many of whom have broad experiences. That's just something an internal system cannot reproduce. Think about comparing an internal company system to a community site like SQLServerCentral.com. There's just no comparison.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

DPhillips-731960 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:31:29 GMT

[quote][b]K. Brian Kelley (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]It provides the capability of connecting with folks that an internal system wouldn't allow, in a near real-time medium, if that's needed.[/quote]Wouldn't allow, or currently doesn't offer? Sounds like a matter of preference and ease of offering, not a matter of ability.However, I do not want to sound negative on your choice. I do respect your logic on the cost/benefit analysis. One cannot always live in fear... but certain levels of privacy should be thought out, before sending out unretractables. To each their own.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:23 GMT

[quote][b]John Erdovegi (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]All of these Social-websites, and even email, can, and sometimes is under surveillance by people. Someday some of these "Futuristic"/Sci/Fi concepts, may become reality. It makes it easier for internal security and for the Government to know so much more about everyone. Sometimes It could help prevent crimes, but it can do harmless people, some harm.[/quote]I don't disagree with you, and thinking about what I'm posting on-line is always at the back of my mind. Yes, there is the potential of someone monitoring you. Yes, there are places like Great Britain which are looking at doing just that and there have been cases with voice communications here in the US which were intercepted by the NSA, even though there wasn't a specific justification to do so. That's more and more a possibility in today's world. But at some point, you've got to measure the value versus the risk. For some, it may not be worth it. Steve hasn't found much value in Twitter, and the reason is he probably uses it differently than I do, and that's fine. And along the same lines, if he handed me some of the tools he uses for carpentry, the reverse would be true because I probably wouldn't find much use for them, mainly because it hasn't ever been a big interest of mine and because I've never done that type of work. For me, Twitter is worth it from a value perspective. It provides the capability of connecting with folks that an internal system wouldn't allow, in a near real-time medium, if that's needed. YMMV.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

John Erdovegi — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:03:12 GMT

Sorry, but here are my 2-cents, maybe 25-cents, worth.Yes, I am in a semi-public forum and I do participate in forums. But much of the internet is PUBLIC, so anything you say, might become available to anyone else, either by chance, search or hack.So on the Internet, you have to watch what you say, where you participate, or even browse. You may have nothing to hide, but even some mild or unintentional things may backfire on you at a later point. You can change your viewpoint, friends, lifestyle, and habits. But they get "Carved-in-internet" and don't go away.All of these Social-websites, and even email, can, and sometimes is under surveillance by people. Someday some of these "Futuristic"/Sci/Fi concepts, may become reality. It makes it easier for internal security and for the Government to know so much more about everyone. Sometimes It could help prevent crimes, but it can do harmless people, some harm.You could create a similar system to be use internally for your business, and on secure-websites, then you have more control and security. It can be run on a separate server. I've done some similar segments like this.:)

RE: Twitter Your Issues

DPhillips-731960 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:02:07 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - Editor (11/12/2008)[/b][hr]... SMS is available in many places that data connections cannot be ...[/B][/quote]Most phone providers with SMS services have an email connector. For example, Verizon is [phone number]@vtext.com. You don't have to have a data connection. TMobile and Sprint have one also, although I don't recall those domains just now. Of course, the limitation is the size of the message, but some tools will break up the message into multiple SMS for you. The main reason SMS does not take off more, is because many providers still severely toll messaging traffic.I've not used Twitter. I personally am not a fan of any of the social networking sites, as too much information is revealable without ones' consent. It is not all that hard to stumble upon who my friend's friend's family's children are. In a perfect world, trust of care for personal information would not be a worry. But the world is not there... yet.I find alarming the data mining practices that occur with both Linked-In and FaceBook. If I want to share something with the world, I'll put up a web site. Otherwise, I would rather Joe-public, uncle Sam, and even cousin IT have to take the harder routes to obtain personal information.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Steve Jones - Editor — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:55:05 GMT

Yammer looks interesting, and thanks for pointing it out.You definitely need downtime, but the thing to remember is that Twitter, alerts, Blackberry's aren't binary devices. It doesn't mean you are always connected or rarely connected. It's a tool that you use as it fits in your life.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Matt Guthrie — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:38:19 GMT

We've been using Yammer for a couple of months. No feed from our automated build server yet, but I think that's coming.We specifically chose it over Twitter for the company-orientedness of it.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Chris.Strolia-Davis — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:23:35 GMT

[quote][b]K. Brian Kelley (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]Also, to maximize the effectiveness of Twitter, you really need to get one of the clients that makes use of the Twitter APIs. The web interface presented is extremely limited. I happen to use TweetDeck as it lets me see all the tweets from those I follow, any tweets specifically sent my way (replies), as well as direct messages which don't appear to the public. But it also allows me to group people so I see their tweets both in the main feed, but also separately, so they get more attention. And TweetDeck also allows me to keep a column open which basically searches Twitter for any posts on "SQL Server." Other clients do similar things.[/quote]Definitely,... I have found the [url=http://www.flock.com/]Flock Browser[/url] to be invaluable in this regard.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:21:10 GMT

[quote][b]skjoldtc (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]Twitter is another way to be always connected. Who needs that? There has to be downtime somewhere.Friends and family get irritated as it is that I don't check personal email thoughout the day (not allowed at my current gig). I used to use IM and angered those on my list when I wasn't replying instantly. I don't need the aggravation. I don't want nor need 24/7 connectivity. At work when something fails, yes, but that's the exception.[/quote]That's one of the beauties of Twitter. You can always close the client. When you have time again, you can open it up and check your replies, because unlike some IMs, you can have "off-line" messages.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Wayne West — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:35:18 GMT

[quote][b]skjoldtc (11/13/2008)[/b][hr]... I don't want nor need 24/7 connectivity. At work when something fails, yes, but that's the exception.[/quote]Perfectly stated! I don't instant message, I don't text message. Unfortunately my Palm Pilot that worked disappeared (as opposed to my stupid $300 Palm TX POS, worst Palm Pilot EVAH!), so I have to use my cell phone as an alarm clock, otherwise my cell phone's ringer is turned off when I go to bed.I don't want a CrackBerry, but I have a feeling that I may be getting one at work next year. Maybe I can avoid it, but I definitely won't buy one for myself. I prefer cell phones that are good for making phone calls and little else.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

skjoldtc — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:15:16 GMT

Twitter is another way to be always connected. Who needs that? There has to be downtime somewhere.Friends and family get irritated as it is that I don't check personal email thoughout the day (not allowed at my current gig). I used to use IM and angered those on my list when I wasn't replying instantly. I don't need the aggravation. I don't want nor need 24/7 connectivity. At work when something fails, yes, but that's the exception.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Wayne West — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:54:53 GMT

Interesting concept. I've always liked the idea of servers telling you when they're developing problems, at least when they're not too sick to be unable to tell you, and we (as the DBA community) generally have our jobs and other alerts set to let us know when things aren't working as expected. I currently don't carry a CrackBerry, though that may change in the next year. As far as the security/broadcasting sensitive information issue is concerned, I don't see that as a big deal. Write your scripts to alias or obfuscate the server names and keep the feeds private so your server names don't go out into the wild. I'd be more concerned about failure to deliver the message, though CrackBerries are by no means 100% reliable either.Fortunately my database servers are pretty stable and don't bother me too much.Unfortunately I can't check out your feed, Steve: we just installed an iPrism web filter and it's currently blocked. I sent a request for an exception, we'll see what happens.I do like the idea of "going to the park/movies" feed and being somewhat more caught up on your friend's lives, but I don't know of any of my friends who use Twitter, so kind of a moot point.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:16:59 GMT

I have heard cases where a technology group creates a Twitter account and sets the updates to private. Then, their technicians follow (and are approved) and therefore, they use Twitter to do the alerting when a problem occurs. I agree that this is risky (in my mind) because you have no SLA in place with Twitter. However, some folks seem happy with it.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Steve Jones - Editor — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:12:23 GMT

Interesting responses and I hadn't really considered the social aspect much. I don't get the updates on my phone because it is too distracting for me, but I do get them on the web and a few times a day I'll see if anyone is doing anything interesting.SMS isn't guaranteed, but over a group of people it might make sense. If you're the only person getting alerts, there might be better ways to do this.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

K. Brian Kelley — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:48:43 GMT

I make pretty heavy use of Twitter, to the point where I even have TwitterBerry installed on my BlackBerry. For me it's extremely useful. Not only is there the social aspect of it all, which I find great, but I have found it useful in my day-to-day job, too. I've also found it serves as another medium to participate in a community of tech folks, all very smart, all who sometimes run into problems or technologies they're not intimately familiar with. For instance, yesterday was an example where a short convo on Twitter introduced a very smart developer into bcp and BULK INSERT rather than just straight INSERT statements for a database migration. Now if you want to keep your tech separate from your social, twitter's really not for you. But I have found that, for instance, when I was in Disney World with my family, some advice about those passes which allow you to come back to a ride later, benefitted. And that was posted by a tech guy who happened to be on my follower/followee list. Also, to maximize the effectiveness of Twitter, you really need to get one of the clients that makes use of the Twitter APIs. The web interface presented is extremely limited. I happen to use TweetDeck as it lets me see all the tweets from those I follow, any tweets specifically sent my way (replies), as well as direct messages which don't appear to the public. But it also allows me to group people so I see their tweets both in the main feed, but also separately, so they get more attention. And TweetDeck also allows me to keep a column open which basically searches Twitter for any posts on "SQL Server." Other clients do similar things.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

dmillam — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:41:18 GMT

You might consider [url=http://www.yammer.com/]Yammer [/url]for what you're suggesting. Since, twitter is public I certainly wouldn't like to broadcast my organizations issues across the web. But Yammer would do the same thing but would be private to your organization.Just my 2 cents.Thanks.Dean

RE: Twitter Your Issues

AspiringGeek-40457 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:38:48 GMT

I neglected to add: aspiringgeek@twitter.com

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Andy Warren — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:34:05 GMT

The only place I've seen value in Twitter is when you do need to easily message to a group - conference, trips to Disney World, etc, where you can say 'I'm going to ...'. Other than that, I don't care what you had for breakfast! The bigger issue I have with Twitter is it can easily add another set of task switches to your day. Most of us suffer from task switching already, adding more doesn't strike me as a good idea.Rather than Twitter, wouldn't just publishing feeds internally work for all except the most high priority messages? I've long encourage teams to use a blog internally to post about scheduled down time, changes applied, etc, as a way to inform and maintain a history. The only thing I see wrong with adding Twitter (or only using as you suggest) is that we're back to task switching. Unless I need to act on a high percentage of the messages I'm going to spend a lot of time looking at my phone for no reason.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Chris.Strolia-Davis — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:30:13 GMT

Hey Steve,In your article, you said[quote]I've been using Twitter for about 4 or 5 months now and it's one of those things that I'm not sure of the benefit of using it. [/quote]While I admit, I have not been using it as religiously as I used to, here is one area where I really found Twitter's usefulness.Twitter enables me to stay better connected with my friends (the ones that use it, anyway). When I was first introduced, I thought, "this is just stupid". But, after a while, I found that for those friends of mine that were good about keeping it updated and actually answering the question, "what am I doing.", I found that I was actually building stronger relationships with these friends. Why? even though a simple "Going to the park" message doesn't seem like much, if you look at a friend's whole week, or month, you can instantly see all the events that have happened of enough significance for them to actually microblog about it. This gives you a small window into their lives and that can actually help you to get to know them a bit better. As a busy developer, who was never particularly very good about reaching out and talking to my friends, and who, for some reason, get's phone shy every now and then. I have found that this is a better way to keep in touch than my previous model. I find it easier to say a little blurb about what's going on in my own life, so some people get to know me better, too.The result is that the next time I get together with these friends, most of the small talk has already been gotten out of the way and rather than asking them what they've been up to, I can ask them more specific questions like, "how was that boating trip you took the other week?", or "How are you coming along with the job search?".Again, the point is I just end up feeling more connected. Of course, some people use it as a marketing tool as well, and I've gotten some useful information from time to time from some of those types of folks, too. For the most part, I try to get more quality connections than those. I don't just follow everyone who follows me. I will typically only follow someone who is following me if I see some substance in their posts, and if they don't have way more people they are following than who are following them.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

AspiringGeek-40457 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:08:03 GMT

I'm a twit, & I, too, am still trying to find out why. Not that I need yet another distraction in my life, ;-) yet I have to admit, it doesn't take long. I even blogged about it: Is Twitter the YouTube of 2008? [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/jimmymay/archive/2008/10/19/is-twitter-the-youtube-of-2008.aspx[/url]The truth is, it's a hoot, I'm meeting new friends, & it's fun to to read the tweets.Will it ever come to anything? We'll see...Jimmy May, Aspiring Geek

RE: Twitter Your Issues

andrew.painter — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:40:01 GMT

I'd be very careful using SMS, as i understand it, there is no guarantee when the message will be delivered. I've had massive delays on my UK service.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

John Magnabosco — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:08:00 GMT

I too wonder about the long-term value of Twitter. I follow more than a handful of "tweeters" and have found that there is a lot of static that has to be sorted through for a worthwhile gem. Security is definitely an issue with this medium. A Social Engineering effort applied to these "tweets" can surprisingly reveal quite a bit of information. Ideas such as the one that you presented regarding Powershell sounds interesting and demonstrate that there are some uses beyond telling the world about the latest event in one's life. Hopefully as this product evolves and matures it will become more valuable.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

Jamie Batiste — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:02:25 GMT

I have to say that entrusting functionality to a third party scares me, its an extra tier of complexity or point of failure. Alerts I can semi understand, but it still makes me itch from a security point of view - and I'm a programmer not a DBA. A lot of this so called Web 2.0 functionality tends to be in the same vein - its a rehash of an existing idea. Twitter I can understand for conferences and social gatherings, but facebook functionality and its ilk eludes me - I barely get enough time to speak to my true friends now! Anyway I've facebooked your server....n'ah. Check out Tony Davis article on Simple Talk (http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/11/11/70414.aspx) re Forums.

RE: Twitter Your Issues

david.gerrard-604066 — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:26:50 GMT

Doesn't the WWF have something to do with this type of thing?http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa663328.aspx(That's the Windows Workflow Foundation, not the World Wildlife Fund, or the wrestling.) :)

Twitter Your Issues

Steve Jones - Editor — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:47:01 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Twitter Your Issues[/B]