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RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

rmechaber — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:46:11 GMT

Steve, you need to read the chapter in Don Mitchell's [url=http://www.amazon.com/Moving-Upcountry-Yankee-Way-Knowledge/dp/0899090311/ref=la_B001HCZE6U_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361565386&sr=1-2]Moving Upcountry: A Yankee Way of Knowledge[/url]. (Old farts, yes that is a pun on Don Juan). It's a marvelous combination of erudition, common sense, and humor targeted at himself and his ignorance about how to farm.When he describes refurbishing a very old manure spreader and the, ah, "interesting" way in which it distributes its load, you'll be laughing.If you like it, his sequel (Living Upcountry) has a fantastic chapter in which he decides to put half a septic tank in the basement as a combination in-house spa and solar collector heat sink. As he muses about it half out-loud to his sleepy wife at 2 a.m., she bolts awake at the juxtaposition of the phrases "septic tank" and "in the basement".Rich

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Gary Varga — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:06:34 GMT

[quote][b]David.Poole (2/21/2013)[/b][hr]There is a very real skill in being able to articulate your point of view in a way that the other person understands it.Is it that they don't understand your point of view or that they understand it but simply disagree with it?If it is the former then you are in with a chance, if its the latter.......good luck.If they disagree with your point of view can you put a clear roadmap of what happens if your worst nightmare plays out?If you start evaluating the risk and the probability of the risk becoming an issue you may find that you re-evaluate your position. It is painful to admit that you are wrong.That said when they say "be pragmatic" do they mean "I'm after an easy life, surrender and leave me be"?Winning an argument can be a double-edged sword. Dale Carnegie said that just because someone cannot counter your argument doesn't mean that they buy into it.Sometimes people need to sleep on something to satisfy themselves that things are what they should be.If you do win, for the love of God don't gloat, say thank you and move on. Least said soonest mended.[/quote]A desire to find the best resolution (not necessarily your own) always helps ;-)

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

David.Poole — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:56:51 GMT

There is a very real skill in being able to articulate your point of view in a way that the other person understands it.Is it that they don't understand your point of view or that they understand it but simply disagree with it?If it is the former then you are in with a chance, if its the latter.......good luck.If they disagree with your point of view can you put a clear roadmap of what happens if your worst nightmare plays out?If you start evaluating the risk and the probability of the risk becoming an issue you may find that you re-evaluate your position. It is painful to admit that you are wrong.That said when they say "be pragmatic" do they mean "I'm after an easy life, surrender and leave me be"?Winning an argument can be a double-edged sword. Dale Carnegie said that just because someone cannot counter your argument doesn't mean that they buy into it.Sometimes people need to sleep on something to satisfy themselves that things are what they should be.If you do win, for the love of God don't gloat, say thank you and move on. Least said soonest mended.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Eric M Russell — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:52:22 GMT

After sitting around the office all day long, it's refreshing to get outside and either take a couple hour hike or mow the grass or something. As for shoveling horse poop, that have to be either a labor of love (you own horses?) or earning money on the side.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

TravisDBA — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:55:42 GMT

I think a bit of perspective is due here. Try not to take life too seriously guys, or let stuff like this rent too much space in your head. Bottom line, is you won't get out alive, and no one is even going to remember any of it anyway. :-D

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Gary Varga — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:48:19 GMT

[quote][b]djackson 22568 (2/20/2013)[/b][hr]...had a bad day...[/quote]Bad days I can live with as one part of my comprise might be to wait until the next day...usually ;-)

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

djackson 22568 — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:34:38 GMT

Compromise is part of life. What do you do though, when the person you are working with won't adhere to company policy? For example, a process is developed on adding and changing users on your domain, and to ensure they can access resources they need to access, a policy and accompanying procedure is developed. Yet some refuse to follow it, saying it is flawed, although it works perfectly.Well, one option is for the person who feels it is flawed to suggest improvements. However if they won't do that, and simply go rogue, what option do we have? Compromise? On company policy?I have worked with people who on my first day with the company, they started telling me what an *** my manager was, and by the way, the director is worse! Compromise? On what?Compromise only works if both parties are willing to act like adults. Too often, one party is willing, but the other had a bad day, has a poor attitude, or any number of other issues. I don't believe there is a fix, at least not one that will work. People have issues. We can attempt to do everything as best as we can, communicate as much as possible, offer suggestions, debate resolutions, and compromise to find middle ground. Sometimes, though, we find ourselves on the equivalent of a one way street where we clearly are going the right direction, yet others can't or won't recognize that they are going in the wrong direction. I find most managers don't want to deal with people issues. I don't see these things improving, but one can always hope.In the meantime, let's continue to compromise where it is appropriate to do so. When it isn't, kick it to management, let them deal with it, and do what they decide. That is the only way to protect ourselves, because those who won't compromise usually have skill sets that help them shift blame.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Miles Neale — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:28:28 GMT

Years back I ran a spreader as well. I worked with a crew that cleaned chicken houses in Northwest Arkansas. It was hard dirty work and there was always something to complain about. After 3-4 hours of 104 degrees F shoveling 8-10 inch cake off the floor into the spreader each of the team was about fried. After we were done for the day we headed to the creek for a swim and to cool down. Now thinking back on those days, I have to admit that there are things about that work that I miss. The laughter, fellowship, the sense of accomplishment when you could see what you had done, and the appreciation of the farmer for a job well done are all so different from the stress, deadlines, isolation, and never seeing the end of the work of IT work we face in the industry today. Not that I would trade what I do now for what I did then, but when I am done with this who knows.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Solomon Rutzky — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:05:59 GMT

Steve, since you mentioned your kids I immediately thought of "The Zax" by Dr. Seuss. It is the 2nd story in _Sneetches and other Stories_ and is exactly about this issue of people who are not willing to compromise. It should be required reading ;-).

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

OCTom — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:53:54 GMT

So, why not hook the trailer to the truck before loading the manure? The trailer is much lighter at that point. Tom

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

batgirl — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:04:46 GMT

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Gary Varga — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:13:00 GMT

[quote][b]Shaun McGuile (11/3/2008)[/b][hr]Steve, I wish you'd get back to talking about horses all this about politicians is getting a bit much![/quote]...surely you're not asking for a compromise?Anyway, JFDI (Just Do It) overcomes all attempts a finding a widely accepted resolution. I hear it far too often.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

majorbloodnock — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:28:49 GMT

[quote][b]jcrawf02 (11/3/2008)[/b][hr]Politician AND a manure spreader - [url]http://www.tomlynch4supervisor.com-a.googlepages.com/pastisprologue[/url]By the way, what's the second half of the title? "Life is like a manure spreader" . . .. . . If you're not careful, you can get $^&* everywhere. . . without compromise, you end up being the only one handling the poo.. . . but it doesn't taste anything like a box of chocolate!. . . contributions encouraged . . .[/quote]OK, that sounds like a challenge. Here goes."Life is like a manure spreader".........."but work is like the field"...."A brand new day, but same old sh** "...."What goes around, comes around"And, whilst I'm not going to retype the whole thing, I suspect here would be a good point to remind people about the [url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost567523.aspx]tale of the non-conformist sparrow[/url]

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Jeff Moden — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:01:09 GMT

Heh... I beg to differ, Steve. You did NOT compromise. You simply made it easier for someone else to do the work and, as it turns out, may have saved your own back in the process. You "enabled" someone else!And THAT's the secret to success... "LET them see it YOUR way". In order to do that, you sometimes have to help them along. As David Poole once noted, the extraordinary DBA is the one you seek out first, not use as a last resort.By the way, you once suggested that throwing hardware at performance problems was the way to go... why don't you take a ride to the local tractor store and buy one of those hand-crank, wheeled tounge posts and make it so easy for the Mrs. that she'll actually thank you for making it easier to do a "crap job"? :P Extraordinary DBA... :hehe:

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

jcrawf02 — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:58:33 GMT

Politician AND a manure spreader - [url]http://www.tomlynch4supervisor.com-a.googlepages.com/pastisprologue[/url]By the way, what's the second half of the title? "Life is like a manure spreader" . . .. . . If you're not careful, you can get $^&* everywhere. . . without compromise, you end up being the only one handling the poo.. . . but it doesn't taste anything like a box of chocolate!. . . contributions encouraged . . .

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Miles Neale — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:15:08 GMT

In the old days we tried to get others to think that it was their idea in the first place and we worked to hone the skill. It worked from time to time and saved a lot of grief. And as far as politics is concerned there have been so many negative adds on all sides here people are wondering no matter who is elected if the world will still exist past tomorrow.It has been particularly bad this past few weeks.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:47:25 GMT

Hey, it's a big election year, what can I say :)Maybe a few politicians should read this one.:P

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Shaun McGuile — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:05:00 GMT

Steve, I wish you'd get back to talking about horses all this about politicians is getting a bit much!

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:56:57 GMT

top of the hill would be nice, edge of the gully better. Unfortunately some seem resistant to that training. Like in business, some are happy to drop where they eat (work), even if that's inside the barn.Of course we have a few nice ones that will go over to the same pile and make deposits on a regular basis.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Loner — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:02:03 GMT

It takes two parties to compromise. I find out even I am willing to compromise, the other party refuses. It is people's pride getting in the way. Some people feel if they compromise, they lose power.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Andy Warren — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:58:44 GMT

Steve, wouldn't it make sense to just train the horses to use the top of the hill and avoid you manually spreading it around yourself? Doesn't manure roll down hill?Good editorial. I've gotten better at listening and compromising as I've aged, but the hard part is that if both sides aren't doing it, it still doesn't work out so well. I haven't reach the zen plateau where I can listen and compromise without expecting the other party to do the same. One technique I've used that helps some is to use a white board or flip chart to center the discussion, rather than having two people go toe to toe. List the points on each side, make them get it all on the board, then you've got a puzzle with limits.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Shaun McGuile — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:14:49 GMT

'Politicians are like manure spreaders' - hmm has a certain oder to it :D

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

John Magnabosco — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:11:07 GMT

Steve, your sentiment could not be more appropriate for a day-before-election editorial. :DIt applies to so many aspects of our existence.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Shaun McGuile — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:06:11 GMT

The purpose of a business is to make money now and more in the future, nothing else. viva capatalism. :DTherefore the only goal is maximum revenue.Anyone who does not believe this has already failed.:)Of course one should pursue the goal with ethics and doing the right thing. ;)

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

majorbloodnock — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:01:44 GMT

Like the theories, Shaun. Unfortunately, they both state one basic assumption in common - that everyone is working towards a common goal - which may well not be correct.As a simplistic example, two friends going into business together, each with a 50% stake, clearly have to work together to be successful. However, if one believes the overriding priority to be market penetration whilst the other believes it to be maximisation of revenue, there's no "right" viewpoint, and a compromise will be necessary.

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Shaun McGuile — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:33:58 GMT

Compromise - No! Never!Evaporating Cloud resolution - Yes!Theory of Constraints - Yes!Google it and reap the wisdom - here endeth the lesson. :D

RE: Life is Like a Manure Spreader

majorbloodnock — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:28:09 GMT

Reminds me of a Tom Lehrer quote - [i]"Life is like a sewer; what you get out of it depends on what you put into it"[/i], although I prefer to ascribe to the Small Faces analogy - [i]"Life is just a bowl of All Bran; you wake up every morning and it's there" (opening line to "Lazy Sunday Afternoon")[/i].Regarding the more serious point, my general feeling is "of course". In almost any form of business, you can't achieve what you want without convincing someone to do some thing for you. Since that means collaboration of some sort, the idea of "we've got to work together" is self-evident. And, as in any form of collaboration, it'll work best if you take the trouble to find out what the other person/people's motivators are.

Life is Like a Manure Spreader

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:02:48 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Life is Like a Manure Spreader[/B]