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RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Revenant — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 11:30:29 GMT

[quote][b]Charles Kincaid (4/3/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Michael Valentine Jones (4/3/2008)[/b][hr]So how do you do this with people that work remotely or if you work remotely?[/quote]MSNMessengerLive, GoToMeeting, internal newsgroups (what, your company does not run their own UseNet server?), internal forums. It's tougher but not impossible.[/quote]Make sure that you have reasonably fast connection and a good camera.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

TravisDBA — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 11:27:46 GMT

Personally, while I think it is definitely beneficial to be "cordial" to the people you work with, I would not go so far as to say that you need to be "friends" either. I try to keep those two things separate at the work place, and there are several good reasons why:1. Work can become an unprofessional environment. Too much [b]chit chat and not enough focus on the job[/b] can get you and your "friend" in trouble. Man, I have seen this one in action over the years. "Friends" tend to lose this important perspective at work many times.2. Ironically, having a [b]"friend" in the office stand up for you can actually garner resentment from others.[/b] Co-workers may feel that you are getting preferential treatment you don't deserve. Another good reason I have seen a lot of in the work place in the past, particularly between manager/employee.3. Getting a little too close with someone at work can mean they know just a little bit too much about you. "Friends" tend to [b]drop their guard[/b] around other "friends", it's just human nature. Do you really want your coworkers to know about your demons or struggles? I know I don't. I knew a person once that told a "friend" at work he was in AA. Real bad move...4. Last but not least, if you think someone is your "friend" and it turns out not to be true, you could easily become the victim of sabotage or backstabbing from someone you trusted. Been there, done that. Got the T-shirt too. I keep it cordial, keep it professional, but I keep work and social separate. I typically am not personal friends with people I work with. :-D

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

TravisDBA — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 10:48:57 GMT

[quote][b]majorbloodnock (12/6/2012)[/b][hr]As we all know, there's a big difference between being efficient and being effective. [/quote]Yes there is. In the immortal words of Peter Drucker:"Efficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing the right things." If you don't know what that means then I can't help you.:-D

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

emoore 99634 — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 07:10:36 GMT

Communication is over rated when you work with Klingons....

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

majorbloodnock — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:39:12 GMT

As we all know, there's a big difference between being efficient and being effective. Maintaining and building relationships with the people you're trying to help ensures the service you provide actually does what is wanted, and is not just an efficient irrelevance.The spin-off benefit, though, is that you quickly become known as someone who knows other people. That means people start to ask you who they should go to in order to sort something out; in effect, you become something of an introduction agency, and I can't think of a better way of keeping on top of what's going on in the business. Once you can do that, your effectiveness and efficiency soar together.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Dalkeith — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 02:23:48 GMT

I quite like to cross reference users opinions of systems with managers opinions of systems. Users often really appreciate being asked and can have differing opinions of systems from managers.There's is no better way of doing that than when you are nipping into their room to get some milk for the coffee.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

timothyawiseman — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:52:58 GMT

It is an excellent point. Thee are so many things best accomplished informally. It is how humans work.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:35:43 GMT

Michael,That's definitely a struggle and after working remotely for 4 years, I'll say that it's hard. Prior to the Red Gate sale, I spoke 3-4 times a week with Andy, usually about business, but lots about just life, his issues at work, things I'd seen in the news, etc. We debated and argued about lots of things. We still do that, but probably once a week. We also got together probably twice a year, making sure we had at least a day before or after a conference, to talk about business.With Red Gate, it's slightly more complex because of distance and time zones. We have a weekly meeting on the phone, which is good for keeping in touch, and the call usually includes some joking, social chat. We do have email, which is good, but it's not as good as the face to face. We met last summer in the UK and recently in Denver for 3 days. We'll also spend some time at TechEd and PASS, and potentially one other date.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Nicole Bowman — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:11:51 GMT

I have been a software development consultant and the skill of being able to walk around and talk non-geek speak with others was highly prized by management. It means that you will be able to build a rapport with the clients and they will keep coming back to you with work. I now work as a developer for a research and development company and everyone here walks around talking to various members of their own departments and others. It really helps to get different perspectives on the business. I guess I have been lucky in my work environments!Cheers,Nicole

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Yelena Varshal — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:44:02 GMT

[quote][b]Dave Sanders (4/3/2008)[/b][hr]There is a technique called Mangement by Wandering Around (MBWA). [/quote]So agree with both Steve and Dave!Additionally: do something for other people first. Or offer to help them. Or just listen to them, you may even not say anything, but they will remeber "the woderful conversation they had with you"

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Dave Sanders-371700 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:29:21 GMT

Nope, I'm sure it's Walking "Around". I though a Walk-About was an Australian Aborigine rite of passage ? I hadn't imagined that going down to the shop floor entailed discovering my spiritual ancestry and returning after an unspecified period with my perceptions radically altered. Oh, No, wait a minute, that is generally what DOES happen !I don't think we should be too precise, it's the same technique, we don't want to confuse our colleagues in the Southern Hemisphere :)

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Miles Neale — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:28:40 GMT

It is hard to sell a technical solution to people who do not know you, have no reason to trust you, and all they hear out of your mouth is geek speak. If we try to understand what and how they are doing things we can help. And being Help brings friendship and partnership. On a rare occasion it may even bring chocolate.Getting to know your user and speaking their language is vital. Great article!

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

dduensing — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:09:51 GMT

I feel the more I know about the people I work with, the better I can respond to the requirements. Silos create so many problems; real issues are not discussed; solutions are proposed rather than problem definitions; existing solutions are ignored out of ignorance, or turf protection. IT is RARELY "the business," not that there isn't value and competitive advantage, just that we are here to support something. The more we know about the environment and the people in it, the better we can do the things we are expected to do! I've always felt it was important to listen at the help desk, figure out what is causing the pain, and tried to look at the solutions from the support perspective, as well as from the end-user perspective.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Charles Kincaid — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:01:41 GMT

[quote][b]Michael Valentine Jones (4/3/2008)[/b][hr]So how do you do this with people that work remotely or if you work remotely?[/quote]MSNMessengerLive, GoToMeeting, internal newsgroups (what, your company does not run their own UseNet server?), internal forums. It's tougher but not impossible.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Michael Valentine Jones — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:41:14 GMT

So how do you do this with people that work remotely or if you work remotely?

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:37:36 GMT

Thanks and this is definitely one of those areas that you can't measure, you can't put a metric to it, but it's the most valuable time you get with your peers.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Mike C — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:19:37 GMT

Very Zen-like philosophy Steve :)

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Stephanie J Brown — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:13:03 GMT

Steve, you always hit the nail on the head! (And then the rest of us come along and keep pounding away at it.) :DSome of the best business information I've gotten comes from the lunchroom, while we're waiting in line for the microwaves. A "hi, how's your day" conversation can quickly turn into a rant from a user about some issue that's been bothering them for ages - aka "an opportunity to problem-solve". In one instance I was able to assure the user that a problem was in fact being worked on, as well as take their concerns into the team meeting for that project. Turns out a supervisor wasn't passing some problem reports up the line... Talk about two or three birds with one stone! (Oh no, it's the Audobon society - it's just a metaphor - put the tar and feathers down - auuggghh! :sick: ! )In my view, a smart manager does MBWA, and encourages his people to do similar things - Programming By Walking Around? :hehe: I like seeing my boss coming, because it means I can bring up any pressing issues, or find out what's new that may impact the group. (Okay, sometimes we just vent to each other, too.) It certainly makes the work environment more enjoyable when you're reaction is "Oh good, there's my boss" rather than "Oh crap!"

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Charles Kincaid — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:03:24 GMT

[quote][b]Dave Sanders (4/3/2008)[/b][hr]There is a technique called Management by Wandering Around (MBWA). [/quote][b][i][u]About[/u][/i][/b]. Management by Walking About. If you say it that way the folks east of the East Coast (Good day, Brits.) will understand it. :DSupposedly created by Ford. I don't think that it actually started with him but he made it famous. Demming picked up on it and taught it in Tokyo. He encapsulated it as part of teaching that there is a corporate culture and that the workplace is a micro-cosim of society in general.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

G Bryant McClellan — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:53:37 GMT

When I first started working at this company, ISS was the traditional ivory tower from the 1950s. Analysts analyzed, programmers never saw the light of day and outside of the analysts, no one ever spoke with the customer (customer being defined as anybody who used ISS services, whether internal or not). ISS was also isolated from the business with all the members sitting in one area.The group I joined (outside of ISS) was formed in the business to counter those problems. We sat in the middle of the business and, therefore, were intimately involved in what was happening. If only through osmosis our understanding of the business far exceeded the 'professionals' in ISS.Now, virtually all of us are part of IT and, once again, removed from the business. However, a lot of the current members of IT were involved with the business directly over the years so the relationships are closer and the communication lines more open. As a rule, the friendlier and more open the lines of communication between IT and the business, the better the quality of work performed by both. There is plenty of side conversation and, at least in years past, more business was accomplished on the stoop over a smoke than ever happened in a conference room or anywhere else. And those get-togethers were NOT limited to smokers.The same is true within IT. As an example, our group maintains very close ties with the network support folks, frequently stopping by just to chat for a moment or two. It makes a huge difference when your a** is in a sling and you need some help, or when you are planning a roll out and need some help figuring out port assignments or you are simply curious about the network configuration and why it works the way it does.Whatever the approach, Steve is right that while they may be viewed as inefficient, those side conversations, et cetera, are many times the most valuable pieces of communication that occur within a company simply because they build and cement personal relationships. And if you think about it, the same could be said to apply to this forum...

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Charles Kincaid — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:53:33 GMT

[quote][b]Zoë Braven-Giles (4/3/2008)[/b][hr]But, that would mean a computer bod actually trying to comminucate with the outside world....... [/quote]Riiight. Like [b][i][u]that's[/u][/i][/b] going to happen! Seriously that's why some of us guys don't get dates. We never get up enough stuff to even ask. This is one of the reasons that I [b][i][u]attack[/u][/i][/b] low self esteem.Oh wait. You were being funny. :blush:

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Robert Hermsen — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:03:22 GMT

Sidebars and random discussions of off topic issues even non work related can be more informative and become extremely work related very easily when you work in an office of dorks like most of us. From a management perspective you learn so much more about your groups functional and disfuntional aspects. They also are not thinking you are watching them when you come around often. If you see your boss often you no longer go 'crap, boss on deck!' Regular communication with your peers aids in your own brainstorming and thinking adventures. If you are arogant enough to say you know it all and can write perfect code\script\documentation then i scoff at you. The power of a group of programmers\dbas\technical writers is that each of them bring something different to the table.I have learned more from our sidebar discussions than i have from some of the weeklong training courses. I have also learned more from sidebards with instructors than i have from the rest of a training session.Never corner yourself into your own cube. It gets very lonely :)

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Yogeesh — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:26:49 GMT

:Wow: nice topic... technology is ever changing... but the personal skills developed this way will always pays.my two cents here.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Dave Sanders-371700 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:48:28 GMT

There is a technique called Mangement by Wandering Around (MBWA). It was a big favourite at Hewlett Packard. I have found it to be most useful. As a DBA it is important to have an understanding of whatever business you are working in, especially if you are writing a report and you do not know the difference between a Grommit and a Cleat.

RE: Try To Be More Inefficient

Zoë Braven-Giles — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:20:39 GMT

But, that would mean a computer bod actually trying to comminucate with the outside world....... Not ...... talk ........ computer ......... speak ...............Nnnaaaaarrrrgggggeeeee!!!!! Can't ......... cope .............[internal error. Please re-boot];):w00t::hehe:;)

Try To Be More Inefficient

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:24:52 GMT

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