SQLServerCentral / Editorials / SQLServerCentral.com / Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT? / Latest Posts

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Gift Peddie — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:24:00 GMT

All of the above is not valid because there are some of us without kids who still face the same discriminations.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Charles Kincaid — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:17:00 GMT

I would agree in that employers are looking for people with "recent experience". Then too these are the same people that post job openings that say "eight years experience in SQL-2005 is required." Looking for a pre-alpha team member here, are we?

So is this and IT problem or an HR problem? I'd be looking for somebody who can learn and adapt. Somebody who can juggle multiple tasks. A person that can make my customers feel OK while trying to solve the problem. Somebody who can see through a smoke screen put up by a user and spot when the user is not telling you the real story. As to gender ... well.

"No, mommy, I didn't do anything wrong. I swear."

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Andy Brons — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:11:00 GMT

This editorial is a red herring, the problem that women face in the work place is the problem, not the problems women have working in IT. Women face almost insurmountable obstacles in returning to work after a hiatus of even a couple of years in any profession. That is the problem that is reflected in the statistics of women in IT.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Annette Ehrlich — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:39:00 GMT

I would encourage my girls to pursue something they find interesting and challenging, whether that is IT or not. I agree that the specific environment for each job is the important factor and I can honestly say that it is not the same for all IT jobs. In fact, I am currently a network administrator and I work in a very family friendly environment. While I am on-call 24/7, if our burglar alarm goes off in the middle of the night, I can have the police respond so that I would not have to report to my office alone in the middle of the night. I have built plenty of redundancy into my systems, so if I need to stay home with a sick child, it is not an issue, though I usually do get phone calls while I am home on those days. People in my office are very respectful and typically do not vent on IT, even when they are frustrated. While this isn't as nice as when I was running my own consulting company (dissolved after 9/11 since most people no longer want an Air Force Reservist as their primary IT consultant), it works for my family. BTW, I work for an elected county official in a mid-sized Ohio county.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

noeld — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:13:00 GMT

The work place makes a *BIG* difference. I have been extremelly lucky to work for very good companies but I have seen the bad ones too. IT is a tough environment and I have to work very hard but I can not think of anything more rewarding at the moment.True, enterprenur sounds good, inventor sounds good but those are too risky. I feel that with a lot less money than those who succeed in the above mentioned fields IT still can be a very creative experience.In regards to outsourcing... it happens on *every* field not just IT and is just another step in the globalization of the economy. You have to be competitive to survive regardless of what you do.Cheers,

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Loner — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:42:00 GMT

You are lucky that your company let you work flexible hours.When my son was young, my manager denied my promotion because he said I took too much time off because I had to take my son to the doctor and everything. Also they said I was not flexible because I had to leave at 5:00pm to pick up my son at daycare. I made up my hours during weekends and nights and got my project done on time but they did not see it that way.One day the daycare called me at 11:30 am and told me my son had chicken pox, I went to pick him up. At 1:30pm, my manager called me at home and asked me when I could come back to work.My manager and VP admitted that I was one the best programmers that they knew, even the CEO and the former CEO who became the consultant recognized my work. However they refused to me a promotion because I had a young son. I felt it was discrimiation. I did not think at that time but I should report to the labor department and sued them.It did not matter, I sent out my resume and got another job which was much better.The CEO even came to my cube to say good-bye. Ironically they fired the VP a few months after I left.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Marie Wilkinson — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:38:00 GMT

WOW, I feel like I am in an other world bubble. I have been in the field for 20+ years from a young woman to a mother with 4 children who left the field for 8 years to be home with her kids. I came back part time when my youngest was three, she is now 17...I'm still part time although now I work 30 hours a week instead of 20. I have thought that IT is a perfert mother job, working from home when my kids are sick, flexible hours. Also,I have worked almost solely for women since returning from my hiatus..several layers up too. And yes I would recommend IT to my daughters. I was able to come back easily because I was a hard worker/team player and had an established reputation with several bosses. I know my time off plus part time status has depressed my wages but according to the lastest gov't stats I still make in the top 10% of all women in the US. And finally in spite of out-sourcing; companies will always need people on site.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Loner — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:32:00 GMT

If my daughter wants to major in IT, I would not discourage her. If she has not decided what to major in college, I would not encourage her to major in IT.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Gift Peddie — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:09:00 GMT

(If you research any female executives of any Fortune 500 companies, they all come from sales and marking, or financing background, including the CEOs of AutoDesk,)

Actually Autodesk Carol Bartz is from a CS background told to do CS because she loved math but hate to teach, she had her daughter very late in life and promised to make sure no man will try what she experienced with her daughter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Lilian Gong — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:30:00 GMT

It's a hard question. I've been in IT over a decade, from enginneer to developer, to DBA, to architect. It's been a really hard path. Being always the only female technical person on the team, i found it's so hard to work in a male-dominated industry. Ahthough I've been promoted by many male executives, it's hard to get mentoringship from the male peers, and it's hard to supervise the male subordinates. Most of these men would rather date me. After years of struggling, paying the dues, I finally have reached a very comfortable position and level in my field and in this industry: a well-paid job with flexible hours, and doing creative, challenging work. Still, it's hard for me to move up to the executive-level position. If you research any female executives of any Fortune 500 companies, they all come from sales and marking, or financing background, including the CEOs of AutoDesk, and E-Bay. Looking back my career, I should have got into sales or markeing just a few years of obtaining hands-on programming experience post the college graduation.To make the point quick, I'm a single mothe with a 5-year-old daughter in Los Angeles. I wouldn't push her to the IT field. Her education would be comprehensively covered. If she does develop an interest in science and technology, I would encourage her to get a degree, like I did. However, pursuit a career in sales and markeing of technological products. Eventually, the science, high-tech, or bio-tech will be the majority of emerging industry in developed countries. So no matter what you, it's good to understand the fundamental of those fields.Lilian GongDestinationRx.com

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Charles Kincaid — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:03:00 GMT

Women in IT? So soon have we forgotten. Late great Admiral Grace M. Hopper comes to mind. Memeber of the original Codasyl, pivotal in the design of COBOL, responsible for changing FORTRAN to WHATFOR, the term "bug" came from her team. Although she would not admit having anything to do with APL it proved that a useful symbolic programming lanuage was practical where the symbology was not based on written human language elements (words, sentences, etc.). One hell of a good teacher. I've talked with people who had her as an instructor.

I had to develop an app for a company that used an Oracle database. The client had Oracle resources. The best person for me to work with, that knew their stuff and was thoughly professional, was a woman. The client project manager was a woman.

I've worked with women developers and for women supervisors. SO WHAT? As with anything I would encourage a person, young or otherwise, to look at all aspects of a job and pursue what is in line with ther own self.

"A difference that make no difference is no difference." That line is credited to Gene Roddenberry.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Paul Paiva — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:20:00 GMT

I'm not an expert in the area of psychology but I do like to read. Here's something I learned:

There was a study done using the Myers-Briggs Personality Indicator. It revealed that 2/3 of women excelled in the sterotypical "feminine" qualities like listening, nurturing, compassion, and that 1/3 of men excelled in these same qualities. Similarly, 2/3 of men excelled in the sterotypical "male" qualities like strength, decisiveness, and being analytical, and 1/3 of women excelled in the same.

Nothing like overhearing a group of women (or men) in a bar having after drinks after work, saying "Men (or women) are like _____".

Therefore, what is it to be a man? To be a woman? We could write volumes on these questions!

Seems to me that the question of deciding to encourage one's daughter to work in IT depends on, what are her aptitudes?

Paul

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Bob Hoffman-209065 — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:05:00 GMT

I don't think IT would be happy with my daughters!

One just graduated from college in December and the other is about half way through. Neither took any computer classes but being able to use one is a must.

Neither have any desire to work in IT. Maybe because Dad does. One does show some aptitude towards it but IT does not recruit well, hence that may be part of the problem of why the imbalance, failure to recruit. Even my Son, who is a 4.0 plus senior in High School and has discovered that he has and enjoys his advanced math skills does not see IT as career for him.

It also hard for women to work in a job that requires odd hours and such when, just as their carriers are staring to stabilize and become fun, the baby/family needs start up. I consider that far more important (raising a family) than any career including IT. If you don't want a family, then it's not an issue. But if you do, then it becomes a big problem and both jobs suffer. This may be leading to drop out. I wonder if there is any data on the age groups of women in IT and if it shows the prime birth years as being the lowest amount employed.

I think that working from home becomes a great option for many women who must or wants to have a balanced family and career life.

Ask Mr. Mom Steve...

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Yelena Varshal — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:52:00 GMT

Lynda, Good Article.

Now, judging from my experience, I will advise ladies to work for IT. Similar to Kathi Kellenberger's dauther I was a chemist working with software (processing results, creating programs for thermodynamic calculations and participating in the creation of the first database of analysis techniques). Before I selected chemistry as my major, I wanted to be a geologist but my parents told me that if I ever plan to have children, I would rather prefer chemistry with less travel and if I want to work in geology they will gladly hire a chemist too. When I moved to America with 2 children and started looking for a job, I had a choice between chemistry and computers. When working in the lab as a scientist, it is difficult to work part time, close to home or to have your hours and I had to start with part time then. If you start the experiment, you have to finish it. So I opted for IT.

It is not the matter, ladies or genlemen, whoever needs more flexible time, the IT carier may fit into the schedule. I do hear the replies that we have to work overtime and odd hours, but at least you can find a job with flexible hours

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Paul Paiva — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:30:00 GMT

Excellent article, Lynda.

In my career I have had some jobs that I loved, some that I absolutely despised, and some that were so-so. I find that whether or not it was a good job depends not so much on the nature of the work, but on the people that I work with, be they peers or superiors or customers.

So, to me, whether or not my daughter would be happy in IT is not a function of the work, but rather the people she would work with. And I would think this applies to any profession.

Paul

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

TF-245998 — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:24:00 GMT

I'm a guy, my daughter is in college and yes, I've encouraged her to pursue a career in IT. That's entirely her decision, but I wouldn't think of discouraging her or any other woman from this field. I've been in IT for 34 years, always with big companies, and have found it rewarding & challenging. I've had women as co-workers, managers, CIOs, and supervised a few. I considered them all as individuals & never thought about stereotypes in my working relationships with them as opposed the the guys. Oh, except that I did marry one of them. At my current job, there are probably 15-20% women in the IT department.

One thing challenging about this business is that technology is frequently changing, but that also keeps it interesting. Count me as clueless why women would not want in...

Speaking of clueless, I don't get the dishwasher thingy.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Katie Walker — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:22:00 GMT

I would have to agree with Steve. I would encourage my daughter to pursue whatever career she wanted. My parents encouraged my sister and me to pursue careers in the sciences and we are both very successful.

I didn't pursue a career in IT. It sort of feel into my lap. Most of what I have learned has been on the job training. And each company wants something a little different. I have moved out of the production environment as well and into development. I think that outsourcing is a big part of why women are disappearing from IT. There are fewer jobs and still just as many qualified applicants. I often wonder what I would do if I weren't working in IT.

I always laugh at the faces people make when I tell them I work in IT. They still have the image of men from the sixties in white shirts and black ties with really big glasses. The perception is that I spend all day hiding in my cube. Far from the truth. But I have to say, with IM, I can go all day and not see someone sitting 2 cubes away. I think we have lost the face to face contact which I think helps spark new ideas.

I think a better question to ask would be what are we doing to encourage our daughters to pursue careers in science in general. What are we doing to expose them to the wonders of science and all of the careers that are involved. Computers have become such a part of our lives that I don't think it has quite the allure that it used to.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

David-386780 — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:52:00 GMT

Absolutely not! I do not encourage any young person to seek a career in IT.

With nearly 2 decades of active business use of modern computing technology, do you realize how hard it still is to convince Chief Executives to see IT as profit centers?

If a young person wants to "start" their career with a brief stint in IT, that is perfectly alright. But to pursue IT as a career — that makes no sense when you take the events of the last 10 years and extrapolate the current trend into the future.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Kathi Kellenberger — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:24:00 GMT

My daughter, a chemist, is so good with the software she uses at work that I keep telling her she is going to get recruited by their IT dept. I hope that I would encourage my kids into any field that they were interested in. I have to confess that I discouraged my daughter from going into pharmacy, though. But, I really don't think she would have been happy in it. It's not a good career for creative people.

Nice job Lynda! I hope Steve can recruit you into writing some articles!

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:21:00 GMT

I wouldn't get too down on IT as a roller coaster career. You think marketing in the corporate world is different? Sales?Maybe lawyers and CPAs have a good growth industry, but that's a rat race in and of itself. If you're not trying to become a partner, it can be a limiting factor. If you are you work more than IT.I have friends in health care (admin/insurance) and that's up and down. Doctors? Insurance has caused innumerous headaches and that's not easy, not to mention lots of work. Any corporate area is likely to get layoffs as well.IT is not much different than most white collar jobs. It's a strange blend of grunt work, much like blue collar jobs, with the demands and pressures of white collar ones.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Lynda Rab — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:58:00 GMT

'Does anyone really feel that IT has a promising future as a career field? Be honest!'

I think you can have a promising career... but people will have to make their own opportunities. I know a lot of people that sit back and wait for good things to happen to them in their careers... and surprise, surprise they don't! Others that put themselves out there, take the risks, learn as much as they can, get involved with the community and make opportunities for themselves can develop very rewarding careersl... (be they male or female!)

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Tatsu — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:51:00 GMT

I am having an enjoyable IT career. Every job I have had has been better than the last. As far as encouraging my children, I'm with Steve. I will help them along any path they choose to follow. I'm sure that I will put some of my personal bias in my advice, particularly if they choose a field that does not cover basics such as health insurance and such. Overall, I just want them to be happy.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Mike in Michigan — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:31:00 GMT

The question that was posed was: "Would you encourage your daughter to pursue an IT career?"

Long hours, working holidays and weekends, outsourcing, layoffs...

When I am asked, I always discourage young people from considering IT as a promising career.

Does anyone really feel that IT has a promising future as a career field? Be honest!

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

MattieNH — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:29:00 GMT

I don't know if this has been addressed in the many posts on this topic, but the topic of outsourcing raises an interesting question. Are women leaving IT, or are the jobs women are more likely to have leaving IT?

Mattie

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Someguy — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:29:00 GMT

Good and thoughtful article, Lynda.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say that I'm not recommending anyone get into the IT field unless they enjoy roller coaster rides with their careers. As I speak with older IT professionals, it seems that the last round of instabilities, though severe, aren't all that unusual for this field.

The problem is that computers are like automatic dishwashers. During a good economy, not only do you buy a dishwasher, but you get a nice one made out of stainless steel. In a bad economy, if you don't have a dishwasher, or if your dishwasher breaks, you wash the dishes by hand.

Because of this factor, we always experience downcycles that are worse than the general economy. When it's time to tighten belts, "Dilbert pointy-haired managers" always look to those "geeks in IT" as a source of cuts. The last cycle was made even worse by the fact that someone figured out how to effectively run wires overseas. I have friends who, even in this booming economy have to constantly look over their shoulder - hence Lynda's note that it's not just jobs; it's good paying jobs that are wandering off.

If you're lucky enough to have a job in IT, find ways to make yourself one of the people that will be kept around during the next down-cycle, which is inevitable.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Erin-295134 — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:14:00 GMT

I have been in the field for about 5 years. In even this short time, I have witness many changes. When I started in the field, I would say the distribution of men to women was roughly 40% women, 60% men. Now, I think that number is below 10% women.What I hear, and have experienced, is that the increasing pressure on IT has driven many women out. Products are expected to be delivered quicker and cheaper that before, which in my experience has equated to long hours, with fewer programmers and much more work for everyone. Additionally, the 24/7 world we live in puts many IT people on-call or on some sort of on-call rotation. There can also be a good deal of time required outside of work trying to keep up with current releases and new technology. The salaries seem to have gone down, for entry to mid level IT professionals. When you factor in the additional time spent on and off the job, the hourly rate in the is field has gone down tremendously. All of these factors equate to less time with loved ones and more time on the job for less pay. With there being such a great dichotomy in the workplace, the problem perpetuates itself. In my last two positions, I have literally been one of five or so women in shops of hundreds of men. Even for a strong, confident personality as myself, this can sometimes be intimidating. I have only had 1 mid level woman manager in five years, and that was breif, before she too left the field. I have never personally been in a shop with a high-level woman manager.I am a woman, and I love my job in IT. I did however, just get out of the production environment and into the development environment because I felt my quality of life was slipping with the amount of time I spent being on-call. I also have no children, and a fairly self sufficient husband. If I had to throw in PTA, soccer mom, and daycare, I might re-think my choices.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Rani Shoura — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:00:00 GMT

Dear Lynda,Nice editorial, I wouldn't encourage my daughter to IT technical career at any cause, every career has a pre-created profile in mind like: miners are tough, marketing people are cheaters,nurses are kind, and so the list goes on.., and finally IT technicians are ISOLATED NERDS with only 0's and 1's in the head So this pre-created image of an IT person is more harmful for a girl than a boy (men are OK to be idiots-nerds)about having less ladies in the IT field in our region(Middle East) it is so much common, as an oldfashioned community, girls are not dedicated (some time not allowed to be dedicated) to there careers like what IT pursuing shouldWhich all sweet little angels to have better life, than what we had

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

EdVassie — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:12:00 GMT

I don't have any kids, which could make me more objective or less relevant. Anyway, my view from living in England is...

The recommendation I make to friend's teenage children is that IT is a good place to be, but if you want a career doing IT then look more at the hardware side than software. Better still if you plan on going up the management path, look on IT as a stage to get skills and experience before moving on.

Although there will always be highly-paid niche markets for various software skills in developed counties, I think the trend to move software development and administration to lower-cost economies will increase in the years ahead. This means that trying to make a career in software in developed countries will be harder and less lucrative than it used to be. On the other hand, fixing boxes has to be done where the box physically sits, and the developed world will continue to have boxes.

Maybe the reason less women are entering IT is they feel there are more rewarding choices elsewhere.

Finally, I recommend to any teenager that the best way to make serious money is to be an entrepreneur. If you develop a mindset that can look at a situation and work out how to make a turn, you are likely to end up either seriously wealthy or bankrupt. If you do well, then the wealth you generate moves the economy forward and keeps the likes of me in a job.

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

5409045121009-7368 — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:08:00 GMT

A few echos may get in the way of "From an employer's perspective, if they want to attract and retain more females in IT, they should make the work environment more flexible, stable and family friendly".

RE: Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:48:00 GMT

Just for the record, I'd encourage any of my kids to go into IT if they wanted to. In fact, I'd like to think that I encourage them to do what they want, regardless of income potential or difficulty in pursuit.Thanks for the great editorial, Lynda!

Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?

Lynda Rab — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:41:00 GMT

That is the question I have been mulling over since I was forwarded two articles on Women in IT: "Why the Number of Women in IT is Decreasing" and "The Vanishing IT Woman - System i Women Respond". As the titles suggest, these articles discuss the fact that the number of women choosing to study computer related courses in college or university is decreasing at a much higher proportion than males and the fact that many women are leaving the IT field. They outline why these trends are developing, the dangers of these trends continuing and talk about ways the trends can be diverted.

There was much talk about males and females having different skill sets that are both needed in IT… Well, I can't say that I have found it to be true! I don't give much credence to the 'women are better listeners, analysts and relationship builders' and 'men are better at complex mental visualization and abstract thought' argument. I think that a successful IT team is comprised of individuals with different, complementary skill sets, personalities and motivations, be they men or women.

I don't believe that skills sets or personality types are stereotypically male or female, but I do think that in many cases what motivates men and women is often different. Recent changes in the IT industry might have made it less appealing to women and these changes may be why more women are leaving IT and young women are deciding not to pursue an IT career.

The IT industry has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Since the crash of the tech market, IT has been hit with lay-offs, downsizing, increased competition for fewer jobs, fewer high paying jobs, slashes to training budgets and out-sourcing. There are less motivators for both males and females to enter or stay in the tech market, but possibly a few less motivators for females. Women are often the primary caregivers in a family with conflicting priorities, especially when they have young children. I feel that most women are looking for, among other things, a flexible, fairly secure and stable environment to work in.

Now back to my original question: "Would I encourage my daughter to pursue a career in IT?" My initial response was "no" which left me with another question: Why did I say "no"? I have been extremely happy and successful with my career in IT and am now in the enviable position of having several career opportunities available to me. I have never encountered problems relating to the fact that I was female and I have never thought that the fact I was a female would hinder me in any way in achieving whatever goal I set for myself. My career also gave my financial independence at a young age.

After thinking about it for a while longer, I changed my answer to "yes" thinking that the pros of an IT career might still outweigh the cons for both males and females. I think I would recommend it, provided that my daughter had the aptitude and characteristics that I think would improve her chances of balancing a successful IT career and happy family life. Some of the key characteristics I would be looking for would be confidence, adaptability, the ability to learn quickly and good organizational skills.

From an employer's perspective, if they want to attract and retain more females in IT, they should make the work environment more flexible, stable and family friendly.

Would you encourage your daughter to pursue an IT career? Have you noticed a drop in the number of women in IT? Do you think doing something about the declining number of women is IT is important? What can employers and educators do to attract more women into IT?

Lynda Rab