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RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Gary Varga — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:45:00 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/22/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Gary Varga (2/22/2013)[/b][hr] Surely some of the responsibility is on the author's own integrity. After all suggesting that someone focusses on the positives and leaves out the less positives (or some negatives) is not necessarily encouraging deception at all..[/quote]Gary, in many cases that's called "bragging", and the problem with that is most people don't know where to draw the line on doing it in a resume, which ends up crossing the line over into deception (lieing). Leaving that reponsibility totally in the hands of the author without doing extensive background and reference checking to back it up is like leaving bank security in the hands of a bank robber, and then just taking his/her word for it that its good to go.:-D[/quote]I am certainly not relieving the hirers from their duty just saying that any articles giving inappropriate advice regarding writing resumes / CVs does not excuse the authors in any way whatsoever.As for the "bragging", just because someone is bragging doesn't mean it is wrong. If you can deliver then brag away. Otherwise it is lying. And wrong.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:49:39 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (2/22/2013)[/b][hr] Surely some of the responsibility is on the author's own integrity. After all suggesting that someone focusses on the positives and leaves out the less positives (or some negatives) is not necessarily encouraging deception at all..[/quote]Gary, in many cases that's called "bragging", and the problem with that is most people don't know where to draw the line on doing it in a resume, which ends up crossing the line over into deception (lieing). Leaving that reponsibility totally in the hands of the author without doing extensive background and reference checking to back it up is like leaving bank security in the hands of a bank robber, and then just taking his/her word for it that its good to go.:-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Gary Varga — Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:56:57 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/21/2013)[/b][hr]I have read so many articles in the past on writing a great resume and not one of them, and I do mean not one of them, mentions anything about TELLING THE TRUTH! It's almost as if they encourage lieing on your resume. :-D[/quote]I agree, however, the better articles only suggest highlighting the most relevant achievements and focussing on strengths etc. Surely some of the responsibility is on the author's own integrity. After all suggesting that someone focusses on the positives and leaves out the less positives (or some negatives) is not necessarily encouraging deception at all. An example is that if you were a junior member of a team and were allowed to silently attend in system architecture meetings saying that you were involved in the process is not untrue but saying you architected the system (even in part) is.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:19:19 GMT

I have read so many articles in the past on writing a great resume and not one of them, and I do mean not one of them, mentions anything about TELLING THE TRUTH! It's almost as if they encourage lieing on your resume. :-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Miles Neale — Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:10:27 GMT

Been out a few days so I am late to the party here. The resume tome is the calling card plus. It is in deed a marketing tool as it should be your ticket to and interview. It has to be accurate, not deceptive, as complete as is appropriate, and pertinent to the hiring authority. Just taking your last resume from three years back and sprucing it up a little does not do justice to the prospective employer or your career.If a job opportunity is worth sending in a resume because it is interesting, then you should send in an updated resume with information that sells you and your skills to the readers such that they will want to know more about what you have to offer, and you will get an interview. As far as books go, if you have written a book, good!. If you have written a good book even better! But if you write a great resume that trumps a book.:-)

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:20:29 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (2/18/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (2/18/2013)[/b][hr]You can't reallistically farm out long-term IT technical support to outside contractors without it costing a bunch of money the government claims it doesn't have nowadays. IT support is 24X7x365 on most of our systems and most of them are in-house. :-D[/quote]Agreed (and I work freelance). Ideally with careful permanent candidate selection and judicial use of temporary expertise one can improve the in-house skills whilst also maintaining a flexibly sized workforce at a sensible cost level.[/quote]Agree Gary, with a very high emphasis on "careful permanent candidate selection". Also, a thorough reference check also helps weed out fraudlent advertisers as well, but its no guarantee a "poser' is not going to get through the gauntlet. Particularly, if management is more concentrated on personality instead. The technical people have been over-ridden many times from management before with comments like "Yes, I know he doesn't have the technical skills to do the job, but I like him". Turns out he was related to him. This stuff can and does happen, even today. :-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Eric M Russell — Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:52:58 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/18/2013)[/b][hr]You can't reallistically farm out long-term IT technical support to outside contractors without it costing a bunch of money the government claims it doesn't have nowadays. IT support is 24X7x365 on most of our systems and most of them are in-house. :-D[/quote]I agree that's it's not cost effective to farm out operational support and database administration, although there are companies that provide services like 24x7 monitoring and support. However, I thinking more along the lines of software development, website / SharePoint portal design, database design, etc.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Gary Varga — Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:51:20 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/18/2013)[/b][hr]You can't reallistically farm out long-term IT technical support to outside contractors without it costing a bunch of money the government claims it doesn't have nowadays. IT support is 24X7x365 on most of our systems and most of them are in-house. :-D[/quote]Agreed (and I work freelance). Ideally with careful permanent candidate selection and judicial use of temporary expertise one can improve the in-house skills whilst also maintaining a flexibly sized workforce at a sensible cost level.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:40:42 GMT

You can't reallistically farm out long-term IT technical support to outside contractors without it costing a bunch of money the government claims it doesn't have nowadays. IT support is 24X7x365 on most of our systems and most of them are in-house. :-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Eric M Russell — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 14:30:33 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b]Everyone needs a narrative about their career that makes them stand out.[/quote]i agree, but the problem with that many times is that narrative turns out to be total BS. :-D[/quote]Even if the narrative turns out to be BS most of the time, it's not necessarily a problem, if you discover it during the interview. For those candidates who manage to BS their way into a position, they can be motivated (or coerced by threat of termination) to live up their resume.[/quote]Maybe it works that way in the private sector, but in the government sector it is much more difficult to get rid of someone for that reason after they have already been hired. Even if there is a probation period, you have to have more than just saying "they are not living up to their resume". That's too vague. Particularly, if that person happens to be a minority. Now, if on the otherhand, they do not pass the background check or the drug test results don't come back until two weeks later, then that is a much different story. That is a clear cut reason for termination. It's just the way the government works nowadays and many times it is not always discovered in the interview either.. Coercing someone by threating to terminate them if they "don't live up to their resume" is considered harassment in the government sector and that can set them up for a lawsuit. Again, this is particularly so if the person in question is a minority.:-D[/quote]I spent a few years on an IT consulting gigs for a federal agency. The staff are typically career government employees and / or have university degrees in scientific or government administration. If they want to hire someone for a specific project and set of technical skills, like building a data warehouse or website design, then it makes sense for them to farm it out to contractors. It's more economical in the long run, and for the reasons you've mentioned above, a lot easier to scale back team members if they don't measure up for some reason.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:55:29 GMT

[quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b]Everyone needs a narrative about their career that makes them stand out.[/quote]i agree, but the problem with that many times is that narrative turns out to be total BS. :-D[/quote]Even if the narrative turns out to be BS most of the time, it's not necessarily a problem, if you discover it during the interview. For those candidates who manage to BS their way into a position, they can be motivated (or coerced by threat of termination) to live up their resume.[/quote]Maybe it works that way in the private sector, but in the government sector it is much more difficult to get rid of someone for that reason after they have already been hired. Even if there is a probation period, you have to have more than just saying "they are not living up to their resume". That's too vague. Particularly, if that person happens to be a minority. Now, if on the otherhand, they do not pass the background check or the drug test results don't come back until two weeks later, then that is a much different story. That is a clear cut reason for termination. It's just the way the government works nowadays and many times it is not always discovered in the interview either.. Coercing someone by threating to terminate them if they "don't live up to their resume" is considered harassment in the government sector and that can set them up for a lawsuit. Again, this is particularly so if the person in question is a minority.:-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:40:02 GMT

[quote][b]jhgoodwin (2/14/2013)[/b][hr]It is difficult to stand out in resume form.I think the simplest way to think about it is that your resume isn't simply a checkmark task. It is a marketing product. As such, it should do the best job possible of accomplishing it's job - getting you an in person interview. Spell check it, check your margins, make sure the order makes sense, look for competing ones you like, and copy the elements you like, so on.[/quote]well said

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Eric M Russell — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:20:17 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b]Everyone needs a narrative about their career that makes them stand out.[/quote]i agree, but the problem with that many times is that narrative turns out to be total BS. :-D[/quote]Even if the narrative turns out to be BS most of the time, it's not necessarily a problem, if you discover it during the interview. For those candidates who manage to BS their way into a position, they can be motivated (or coerced by threat of termination) to live up their resume.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:01:02 GMT

[quote][b]Eric M Russell (2/15/2013)[/b]Everyone needs a narrative about their career that makes them stand out.[/quote]i agree, but the problem with that many times is that narrative turns out to be total BS. :-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Eric M Russell — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:46:55 GMT

[quote]I know that a candidate needs to present themselves well in an interview and be able to write SQL, or manage an instance, but when you are examining dozens of resumes, is there something that stands out?[/quote] When it comes to impressing potential employers with an accomplishment, then of course candidates should actually include mention of that impressive accomplishment (wether it's a large database migration or developing a data warehouse) on their resume instead of just listing their employment history and skillsets. Then be sure to bring it up during the interview. Everyone needs a narrative about their career that makes them stand out.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

batgirl — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:05:27 GMT

I make sure to look for at least a touch of "customer service" skill no matter what the technical requirements may be. It's also very important that someone be able to admit when they don't know the answer. BS will not get the job done - knowing how to research will.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

GeorgeCopeland — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:39:36 GMT

I am always interested in candidates that are geeks: they've played with computers all of their lives and they do it in their spare time like I do. I am also impressed by candidates who know the doco intimately. I don't care so much that you know details but rather that you know how to research unforeseen problems.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Eric M Russell — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:22:02 GMT

I'm not directly involved in hiring decisions, but I do field resumes and then participate in interviews and rate candidates afterward. There really is no one thing I'm looking for on a resume. Honestly 95% of all resumes look the same to me regardless of the past experience of the candidate, especially if they've been groomed and polished by an outside recruiter or consulting agency... You get the usual 7 - 15 year track record of past employers along with a tag cloud of about 20 different technologies that they all claim to have used. I actually think that a well written and concise resume makes a better impression on me than one the typical me-to know-it-all resumes that consume 10 printed pages. If someone mentions their primary responsibilities and a brief description of major project(s) for a postition, then that tells me more than simply listing a big name company and a dozen skills. Of course university degree(s) or certification(s) is one way to objectively differentiate candidates, but I'm not sure how reliable an indicator that is for predicting the performance of one candidate over another. I personally don't have a four year degree (so I'm biased on the side of not seeing it as a requirement), but I do have an (old) certification and am working on a new one. I've never reccomended a candidate based on their certification, but they would tend to do better during the interview, because I ask certification type questions, so they would benefit indirectly in that way. By the time we get around to interviewing a candidate, I've already forgotton wether they have a certification, and my impression based solely on what's said during the interview.During the interview, I'll say: "Tell me about the project you're currently working on.". I'll listen to their narrative closely, and I expect them to go into detail. I'll then ask maybe a half dozen followup questions like: "Really, how much record volume do you injest on a typical day?" and "Wow, merging 100 million records in a single run is a lot of data, so how do you monitor the performance, and what design considerations did you take into consideration to optimize performance of these loads?". I may go back and forth like this for 15 or 20 minutes. It's at that point I'll know wether the guy is a real ETL developer or just some schmuck with a padded resume a list of memorized SQL Server interview answers.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:56:45 GMT

Abu, you would fit right in in Haiti then. Don't see alot of people volunteering to go live there though. :-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Abu Dina — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:48:39 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Abu Dina (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr]That is so rare today, with so many people disrespecting and bad-mouthing our country today, and only out for themselves here. Well, anyway he got hired.[/quote]Overdosing on patriotism can be dangerous.[/quote]For your information Einstein, patriotism is what founded and forged this country with the precious blood of those patriots through several trying times....:-D[/quote]Ooops touched a raw nerve did I?! :-PAn anarchist vs. a patriot BWAHAHAHA how is that for Friday afternoon entertainment?!Naaaaaa.......back on topic.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:38:21 GMT

[quote][b]Abu Dina (2/15/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr]That is so rare today, with so many people disrespecting and bad-mouthing our country today, and only out for themselves here. Well, anyway he got hired.[/quote]Overdosing on patriotism can be dangerous.[/quote]For your information Einstein, patriotism is what founded and forged this country with the precious blood of those patriots through several trying times....You should go to Arlington sometime if you doubt that in any way.:-D

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Abu Dina — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:36:10 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/15/2013)[/b][hr]That is so rare today, with so many people disrespecting and bad-mouthing our country today, and only out for themselves here. Well, anyway he got hired.[/quote]Overdosing on patriotism can be dangerous.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

TravisDBA — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:27:28 GMT

What impresses me most about a candidate is not always on their resume. Once, a number of years ago I was interviewing someone and it came to the part of the interview where I get to find out a little about them and their outside interests. This one candidate said that he did alot of charity work, and volunteering. Particulalrly, with wounded veterans. That impressed me because it immediately showed me that: 1. They freely help others2. They care about something other than themselves.3. They love their country. Those traits are so rare today. So many people disrespecting and bad-mouthing our country today and only out for themselves here. Well, anyway he got hired. I actually went with him a couple of times after that to the veterans hospitals. Man, it broke my heart to see people who have given just about everything for their country and the conditions they were in at that hospital.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

jgoodwin 14842 — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:09:47 GMT

A few that come to mind:1) Other books from various authors2) video training3) peers4) online forums5) self study/your own notes/your own work6) sample code7) books on other database systems ( for example Oracle has some nice DB tuning/perf guides which do crossover to SQL Server)

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

OCTom — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 06:38:19 GMT

[quote][b]G Bryant McClellan (2/15/2013)[/b][hr]I usually end up doing the technical dirty work in interviews, asking the probing questions to figure out if they candidate actually knows SQL Server or has just read something about it. Having used SQL Server since v4.2, I guess I know why I get that role.I have found 2 things that impress me and show that there is more going on than the CV implies. The first is that the candidate is familiar with order of execution. If they have gone to that amount of trouble to learn internals then they are probably capable of learning whatever is necessary and have the desire to do so. The other one is when they don't know the answer to a question and ask for a reference beyond BOL to research the answer themselves. That may not get them hired, but it will make them better in their current job and in a future one. The desire to push the bounds of their knowledge makes them valuable today [i]and [/i]tomorrow.[/quote]I'm curious as to what would be a reference beyond BOL? SCC for example or are you thinking something else?

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

G Bryant McClellan — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 05:58:50 GMT

I usually end up doing the technical dirty work in interviews, asking the probing questions to figure out if they candidate actually knows SQL Server or has just read something about it. Having used SQL Server since v4.2, I guess I know why I get that role.I have found 2 things that impress me and show that there is more going on than the CV implies. The first is that the candidate is familiar with order of execution. If they have gone to that amount of trouble to learn internals then they are probably capable of learning whatever is necessary and have the desire to do so. The other one is when they don't know the answer to a question and ask for a reference beyond BOL to research the answer themselves. That may not get them hired, but it will make them better in their current job and in a future one. The desire to push the bounds of their knowledge makes them valuable today [i]and [/i]tomorrow.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

Gary Varga — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 02:01:08 GMT

1) I like it when candidates show an interest in the less glamourous but more worthy aspects of the role e.g. developers who are interested in a rigorous software development life cycle (SDLC) - by this I mean they see testing as a key responsibility that THEY see as part of their work not something forced on them.2) Candidates who are more interested in the role than the interviewer is with filling it. I find that if I have more enthusiasm to get that candidate into the job than the candidate has in coming to do they job then they don't want it enough.

RE: Impressive Accomplishments

jhgoodwin — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:34:43 GMT

It is difficult to stand out in resume form.I think the simplest way to think about it is that your resume isn't simply a checkmark task. It is a marketing product. As such, it should do the best job possible of accomplishing it's job - getting you an in person interview. Spell check it, check your margins, make sure the order makes sense, look for competing ones you like, and copy the elements you like, so on.That said, DO NOT RELY on your written resume to get contacted. Network like crazy through every option you have available. Any application you fill out online, follow up on them. Do not make the mistake of thinking "the system" will work for you. Assume you will have to go out and beat the bushes yourself to get that job. At least then you won't be disappointed.For those who stand out in person, that's easy. Don't show up looking/acting like a 9-5'er putting on his blowhard hat just long enough to pass the interview stage and get the job. Come seeking to pull more than your weight. Come expecting to do important work that changes the planet. Ask where the hard problems are, so *you* can contribute on them. Show up looking like a winner, talking like a winner, and most importantly, working like a winner. To do that, you need to practice being a winner in all aspects of your life.Simply put, a winner is someone who focuses on objectives, and conquers them consistently.Also, for heaven's sake, don't try to multitask during the interview, either. Turn off your stinking phone. It won't kill you to stop looking at it for a few hours.As a side note:One question interviewers sometimes ask towards the end of the meeting, which is not really out of line, is to tell them about myself, and my experience. Having worked 15 years, 60-80 hours a week most weeks doing active work, study, side work, or personal projects, it's quite an onion to peel in the last 5 minutes of an interview.To be honest, I'm not really sure what's best in this particular scenario.When I do technical interviews, I ask more and more detailed questions until I get vague answers. I use that as my guide to know when the person interviewed has met their depth.If you are interviewing someone else, don't make the mistake of letting the interviewee talk endlessly about their past conquests. Ask specific directed questions about things you think they should know. If you can afford the time, put them to work, and shoulder surf their quality of work.There are lots of people out there who could do an average job. I don't care to work with them. Why should you? Be among the best, and demand those around you to be likewise.That's my two cents on the subject.

Impressive Accomplishments

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:31:51 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Impressive Accomplishments[/B]