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RE: Dealing with Supervision

TravisDBA — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:09:38 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (2/8/2013)[/b]One chap responded said that he wanted to be a manager and when asked of what he said that it didn't matter.[/quote]Gary,Like I said before, it's about control. Micromanagers want control over other people's lives. It's not about helping other people in their team to acheive their goals and/or the companies goals, its about their need to control. It's about self-promotion, in other words it's about them...:-D

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Gary Varga — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 02:03:34 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/7/2013)[/b][hr]That is a very typical repsonse from a micromanager. As I said before, they don't tend to like people to know that they don't have their priorities in order, so they give general response like this. "Just do them all.." They also typically avoid answering emails as well, because this tends to require a response that that they can be quoted on later in a meeting. Micromanagers typically change their minds all the time, primarily because they don't have a clear battle plan or methodology. So as a result, they do not like anything that can possibly pin them down.. Like I said, they can be the most frustrating and demoralizing force in the workplace. I tell folks all the time that don't answer emails, "You are in the IT business and that requires communication, if you don't like answering emails then maybe you should consider another line of work." :-D[/quote]I tend to find that these characters do not consider themselves in IT or even in the sector that they are working in but management. As a recent graduate (so a LONG time ago) a colleague was asking all the graduates on our team what our ambitions were. This was a totally informal chat between the guys and gals over a cup of tea (this is England, don't you know). One chap responded said that he wanted to be a manager and when asked of what he said that it didn't matter. Talk about blind ambition. I bet he achieved it and I bet he is not very good at it.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

TravisDBA — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 11:48:29 GMT

That is a very typical repsonse from a micromanager. As I said before, they don't tend to like people to know that they don't have their priorities in order, so they give general response like this. "Just do them all.." They also typically avoid answering emails as well, because this tends to require a response that that they can be quoted on later in a meeting. Micromanagers typically change their minds all the time, primarily because they don't have a clear battle plan or methodology. So as a result, they do not like anything that can possibly pin them down.. Like I said, they can be the most frustrating and demoralizing force in the workplace. I tell folks all the time that don't answer emails, "You are in the IT business and that requires communication, if you don't like answering emails then maybe you should consider another line of work." :-D

RE: Dealing with Supervision

marcia.j.wilson — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:03:36 GMT

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Gary Varga — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 09:56:21 GMT

I still maintain the email communication especially if it is one way. Confirming changes in priorities has saved my bacon more than a couple of times.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

TravisDBA — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 09:03:12 GMT

[quote][b]Alex Gay (2/6/2013)[/b][hr]I've had managers ask for "Everything, Now" in the past. I keep a written list of all my tasks, and if it gets too much just ask "Which are your top 3 for me to work on, and in which order?"Once armed with this, the next thing that I am asked to do "As top priority" I can point to the list and say "Just tell me which of my top 3 it replaces and I'll get to it." They then have to decide if it is more important than the other important things.I'm now left alone to manage my own workload. :cool:[/quote]Alex, I absolutely agree with you in theory. However, alot of managers (particularly micromanagers) tend to work in what I call "firehose" mode or "crisis management" mode. Your top 3 change daily and those tend to be verbal only. These type of managers don't like an email trail that demonstrates they don't have a good handle on their priorities. What they should be saying to you in reality is "This is your Top 3 for Tuesday, tomorrow, who knows?" Believe me, been there done that. Working for a micromanager can one of the most frustrating and demoralizing forces in the workplace., They tend to remind me of a person whose car is stuck in the mud. They spin their wheels like crazy producing all kinds of smoke and mess for everyone around them, but they don't really go anywhere. :-D

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Alex Gay — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 03:55:39 GMT

I've had managers ask for "Everything, Now" in the past. I keep a written list of all my tasks, and if it gets too much just ask "Which are your top 3 for me to work on, and in which order?"Once armed with this, the next thing that I am asked to do "As top priority" I can point to the list and say "Just tell me which of my top 3 it replaces and I'll get to it." They then have to decide if it is more important than the other important things.I'm now left alone to manage my own workload. :cool:

RE: Dealing with Supervision

gmach — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 13:30:26 GMT

I had a micromanager at my last job, but the thing was she couldn't decide what she wanted done when and she often contradicted herself. As others have indicated, she had her own issues be it with self confidence, insecurity, self respect... who knows. One day maybe she'll quit flaunting her PMP and actually become a mediocre middle manager.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

mmartin1 — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:55:24 GMT

The micro-managers I've had are not technical people and have MBA's. They are looking for a way to justify their degrees and think the walls will fall down without them. There is a issue of trust here, and the more they learn how much they don't know, the more they may be willing to trust the employee. But those that are out for themselves, anything goes.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Miles Neale — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:57:50 GMT

[quote][b]GeorgeCopeland (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Great comments on this thread. I have had clients who put my desk right in front of theirs so they could watch what I do over my shoulder. That does not bother me in the least. In such a case, I take the task list, put my headphones on, and proceed to overload them with completed work. Pretty soon, they can't have me out of their offices fast enough.[/quote]Excellent George, just excellent. One thing I thought about adding earlier is that the one way to break a micromanager is to overload them with things to manage. If I just do what is requested and then go ask what is next, and ask again every time till the list is exhausted, while the entire time you keep asking about things on their plate and needs you will have if they want to know certain things the load becomes too large for them to manage. You can expedite this by asking for work at the very granular level. And also as you produce the required results the trust builds, and since they are getting overworked the first ones they will let loose are those who are producing and can be trusted.And I also wear headphones most of the time. Works great!

RE: Dealing with Supervision

GeorgeCopeland — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:04:04 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - SSC Editor (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Good one. I've tried to be a gopher when I was a manager. Asking people what they need and getting it for them, including shoo-ing off other managers or directors.[/quote]That's not being a gopher, that's being a [b]producer[/b].

RE: Dealing with Supervision

GeorgeCopeland — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:59:47 GMT

Great comments on this thread. I have had clients who put my desk right in front of theirs so they could watch what I do over my shoulder. That does not bother me in the least. In such a case, I take the task list, put my headphones on, and proceed to overload them with completed work. Pretty soon, they can't have me out of their offices fast enough.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

hakim.ali — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 10:43:18 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]...He/she makes sure the spotlight is always on him/her and is quick to accept credit for team accomplishments. He/she is just as quick to assign blame to some individual on his team when something doesn’t go exactly right....One of the micromanager’s main concerns is self-promotion....I have worked for a few of these people in the past[/quote]Spot on, very well put. Unfortunately, so have I...

RE: Dealing with Supervision

TravisDBA — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 10:35:08 GMT

I read this piece on micro-managers once and always thought that it was spot on. Read on:"A micromanager is one of the most frustrating and demoralizing forces in the workplace. He/she has to make all the decisions, set all the priorities, and do all the talking. He/she has to sign off on every document and communication emanating from his/her team and has to attend every meeting that anyone on his/her team attends. He/she makes sure the spotlight is always on him/her and is quick to accept credit for team accomplishments. He/she is just as quick to assign blame to some individual on his team when something doesn’t go exactly right. He/she wastes valuable time on activities that others can handle without him, while many of his/her real responsibilities get shortchanged.One of the micromanager’s main concerns is self-promotion. Somewhere in his/her past, he/she was woefully misinformed that a management role was an opportunity to gain personal recognition for work done by others. To justify this recognition, he/she supervises work needlessly or invades meetings where he/she isn’t needed, all to put his/her thumbprint somewhere on the project."Personally, I have both worked with and for a few of these type of people in the past and I will bet that a lot of people here can name at least one person like this as well. Micromanagers most fear losing control, so they over compensate by contolling everyone and everything little thing in their department. Control is an illusion. The more you think you are in control, you eventually seem to find out how much is actually not in your control.:-D

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Miles Neale — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 09:36:13 GMT

I have been there and have lived through it. It was part of the "proving myself" phase of the career and has not been a problem for decades. I think I finally came to understand how it really works. Managers have learn quickly that things get done, they get done right, and they get done as quickly as I can make them happen. It is an issue of trust. If they want to micromanage something that is fine, they are the manager. I know that certain things make managers uncomfortable, and they need those things to get done. Since that is the case, they are welcome to have meetings, visit me at the workstation, ask questions, email whatever. It is also their work, and their reputation on the line. We work together. They manage and I do the task. That is how it works. I have to understand that certain things are important and managers will manage, and some will micromanage. It is something that comes with the job.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Gary Varga — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:52:54 GMT

[quote][b]Julie Breutzmann (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]DavidL (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]hakim.ali (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Peter Trevor (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Many years ago I was in a team that had a manager who was prone to micro-manage. Usually we factored that in to our estimates but I remember once, when we were all under a tight deadline: We knew this guy had a thing about the smell of garlic, so at lunchtime we all bought Chicken Kiev and chips from a local vendor to eat at our desks. This was not planned in advance, there was no conspiracy, we all just happened to choose the same meal option. And as the aroma of garlic filled the open plan office, the manager was strangely absent for the rest of the day. We made the deadline.[/quote]Where's the 'Like' button on this page? :)[/quote]+1[/quote]+2[/quote]Calm down folks otherwise it will cause an overflow error ;-)

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Julie Breutzmann — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:50:08 GMT

[quote][b]DavidL (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]hakim.ali (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Peter Trevor (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Many years ago I was in a team that had a manager who was prone to micro-manage. Usually we factored that in to our estimates but I remember once, when we were all under a tight deadline: We knew this guy had a thing about the smell of garlic, so at lunchtime we all bought Chicken Kiev and chips from a local vendor to eat at our desks. This was not planned in advance, there was no conspiracy, we all just happened to choose the same meal option. And as the aroma of garlic filled the open plan office, the manager was strangely absent for the rest of the day. We made the deadline.[/quote]Where's the 'Like' button on this page? :)[/quote]+1[/quote]+2

RE: Dealing with Supervision

DavidL — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:32:59 GMT

[quote][b]hakim.ali (2/4/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Peter Trevor (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Many years ago I was in a team that had a manager who was prone to micro-manage. Usually we factored that in to our estimates but I remember once, when we were all under a tight deadline: We knew this guy had a thing about the smell of garlic, so at lunchtime we all bought Chicken Kiev and chips from a local vendor to eat at our desks. This was not planned in advance, there was no conspiracy, we all just happened to choose the same meal option. And as the aroma of garlic filled the open plan office, the manager was strangely absent for the rest of the day. We made the deadline.[/quote]Where's the 'Like' button on this page? :)[/quote]+1

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:16:22 GMT

[quote][b]Alex Gay (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]I found an effective way was to ask "Don't you have coffee to drink?" knowing his mug was empty. "No" replied my boss, falling for my cunningly baited trap "I've drunk it all.""Well you'd better make some more, this might take some time. And while your at it I'll one." I replied handing him my mug.Result, I got rid of him for 5 minutes and get coffee! By the time he got back I knew what the problem was and so was a lot more relaxed and was able to tell him what the fix was and how long it would take.If they are hovering, it usually means that they don't have anything to do, make something for them to do.[/quote]Good one. I've tried to be a gopher when I was a manager. Asking people what they need and getting it for them, including shoo-ing off other managers or directors.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

hisakimatama — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:51:51 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]I tend to find the biggest problem is when they do not accept the limitations of the situation. Particularly when you have highlighted the pertenant one(s) as issues before as there is sometimes the attitude of "you're only doing this so you can say 'I told you so'". As they never say this outright I cannot answer them with "No. I want to get the job done and would rather have done it by now and I raised it in the first place so I could NEVER say 'I told you so'".It seems the most paranoid are...the most paranoid!!! Problems tend to be grief all round. I do find it insulting when people assume that you are making jobs harder than they really are.[/quote]Ugh, I've very recently come to know this whole problem far too well. Just two weeks back, I had to code up a new module for the inventory scanning process at my job. When it was finished, the whole thing ran rather slowly, unfortunately, because my predecessor here coded up a process that had to meld with mine, and that process used quite a bit of RBAR. I added on my functionality and determined that, while slow, it would be tolerable for a day or two while I puzzled out a solution to the RBAR.Sadly, however, my supervisor was less than thrilled with the speed of the operation. I was chewed out, accused of deliberately sabotaging the process, and, ultimately, assigned to do the physical warehouse labor that the process was developed for. The first two were acceptable, since I really should've fixed the RBAR too (but given that my deadline was "today!", I didn't have the liberty of time), but that last one was just too much. Petty as it may be, I did the physical labor and just walked out for the day. The next day, being more cool-headed, I figured out a solution to the RBAR and the process sped up to be faster than it was originally.The worst part was that my supervisor insisted throughout the entire thing that it wasn't the RBAR that was slowing everything down, but it was my code, which just did a simple SELECT for three columns for the item in question. Even though I explained that the process of sequentially looking through 27,000 records three times over for every item was going to be invariably slow, it didn't help my case. Oh well... I'm probably the type that can't stand being told that I'm doing something wrong when everything I've learned says otherwise, for better or worse :hehe:

RE: Dealing with Supervision

fthiemonge-712414 — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:48:47 GMT

A colleague of mine had the same thing happen to him. He simply looked up at the manager and said "This is the part where you go get me some coffee".

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Eric M Russell — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:32:04 GMT

My experience has been that the best way for one to avoid micro-managment, at least the "hovering over your desk" variety, is to efectively manage oneself. After all, it's the squeaky wheel that tends to get the most grease.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

hakim.ali — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:28:25 GMT

[quote][b]Peter Trevor (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]Many years ago I was in a team that had a manager who was prone to micro-manage. Usually we factored that in to our estimates but I remember once, when we were all under a tight deadline: We knew this guy had a thing about the smell of garlic, so at lunchtime we all bought Chicken Kiev and chips from a local vendor to eat at our desks. This was not planned in advance, there was no conspiracy, we all just happened to choose the same meal option. And as the aroma of garlic filled the open plan office, the manager was strangely absent for the rest of the day. We made the deadline.[/quote]Where's the 'Like' button on this page? :)

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Gary Varga — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 06:10:39 GMT

[quote][b]David.Poole (2/4/2013)[/b][hr]I've actively shooed spectators away from my colleagues desks during a difficult deployment.You...stay I need you to do this.You....stay I need you to do that.The rest of you, I will inform when it is done. Go away....NOW.[/quote]I know its going to sound patronising or like I'm blowing smoke but I don't care, as someone who hasn't always had that backup can I say thanks for doing that (in case your colleagues were so under the cosh they were oblivious). :-)

RE: Dealing with Supervision

David.Poole — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 05:45:39 GMT

I've actively shooed spectators away from my colleagues desks during a difficult deployment.You...stay I need you to do this.You....stay I need you to do that.The rest of you, I will inform when it is done. Go away....NOW.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Gary Varga — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 04:53:13 GMT

I tend to find the biggest problem is when they do not accept the limitations of the situation. Particularly when you have highlighted the pertenant one(s) as issues before as there is sometimes the attitude of "you're only doing this so you can say 'I told you so'". As they never say this outright I cannot answer them with "No. I want to get the job done and would rather have done it by now and I raised it in the first place so I could NEVER say 'I told you so'".It seems the most paranoid are...the most paranoid!!! Problems tend to be grief all round. I do find it insulting when people assume that you are making jobs harder than they really are.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

richard-674310 — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 04:49:26 GMT

You can try the Chloe O'Brian (from 24) approach. This isn't word for word but it's close. "It takes longer when you stand there asking questions!"

RE: Dealing with Supervision

john.riley-1111039 — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 04:16:02 GMT

I am probably more intolerant of micromanagement than most, and have had to train a few bosses over the years that a hands-off approach works best with me.What I want is a set of objectives and timescales. If I don't think they can be achieved, I will say so. Otherwise I will get on with it, and how I achieve them is largely my business. Once a boss has figured that I deliver if trusted, that is how it continues.My current boss is a joy in that respect. For a start, he is 120 miles away. The overlap between his tech skills and mine is relatively small, so he has little choice but to trust me. It is in my interest for that situation to continue, so I am careful not to betray that trust.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Alex Gay — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 03:14:48 GMT

I found an effective way was to ask "Don't you have coffee to drink?" knowing his mug was empty. "No" replied my boss, falling for my cunningly baited trap "I've drunk it all.""Well you'd better make some more, this might take some time. And while your at it I'll one." I replied handing him my mug.Result, I got rid of him for 5 minutes and get coffee! By the time he got back I knew what the problem was and so was a lot more relaxed and was able to tell him what the fix was and how long it would take.If they are hovering, it usually means that they don't have anything to do, make something for them to do.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

call.copse — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 02:18:53 GMT

I think it's hard for any tech worker to operate with someone looking over their shoulder. I guess explaining the decisions you are faced with and why you are doing what you are doing is the sensible thing to do.Alternatively you could try my colleague's approach - bring up a word processor and write in large red font 'YOU ARE MAKING ME NERVOUS PLEASE PISS OFF'

RE: Dealing with Supervision

Peter Trevor — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 02:06:39 GMT

Many years ago I was in a team that had a manager who was prone to micro-manage. Usually we factored that in to our estimates but I remember once, when we were all under a tight deadline: We knew this guy had a thing about the smell of garlic, so at lunchtime we all bought Chicken Kiev and chips from a local vendor to eat at our desks. This was not planned in advance, there was no conspiracy, we all just happened to choose the same meal option. And as the aroma of garlic filled the open plan office, the manager was strangely absent for the rest of the day. We made the deadline.

RE: Dealing with Supervision

nopeqwerty — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 03:07:49 GMT

Often i find that if my manager is hovering it is a sign that i have not set or communicated timelines and/or expectations effectively. It can be helpful to have a print out to point to at your desk to walk them through.If yet they still hover then i let them have a voice or say in the decisions being made because it must be important to them!

Dealing with Supervision

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Sat, 02 Feb 2013 13:16:26 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Dealing with Supervision[/B]